Thoughts on trying to silence 'undesirables' on the Internet?

[WorknMan]

I don't know if this topic has been talked about here, but I'd like to hear from the yellow crowd :)

I've noticed a trend happening where people (esp. on the left) are trying to get certain groups like anti-vaxers and white supremacists deplatformed wherever they happen to show up, with the latest efforts I've read about revolving around 8chan.

I'm curious what this community thinks about these 'brute force' methods to silence people; is this a good strategy to deal with very toxic ideologies, or will denying people the ability to express themselves and be heard ultimately backfire and cause more problems than it solves?

 

[Apparition of Jack]

It's a complicated topic. I, for one, think there's a role in censorship and regulation on the internet moving forward. Places like 4chan, 8chan are, in my view, more or less criminal enterprises with the amount of sheer illegal and life-threatening stuff being discussed there. I have known about the threat these websites have posted for years, and yet it's taken over 100 deaths for society to collectively realise just how dangerous they are. And it's not like these are particularly inaccessible places either, literally anyone with the internet can get there through a single URL. 

On the other hand, I understand that you can't force people to give up ideas, and in fact simply debating them and exposing them to other perspectives is sometimes all that's needed to turn someone from a neo-Nazi into a regular citizen. 

The question is, always, what decisions will help raise consciousness, and what will help lower it? I think there's a good argument to be made that we need effective internet moderation to stop people being trapped in low-consciousness cesspits that turns normal people into murderers and Ideologues. I can't say this for certain, but I'm seeing little downsides to this, outside of vague notions of it being a "slippery slope." 

EDIT: I just wish to clarify these are my own personal thoughts and I admit they could be clouded by bias. I have not studied the issue deeply enough, it's just the conclusion I have come to based on my own observations and my own experiences with dangerous ideas being put online. I cannot speak in depth about what the ramifications of my ideas would be, since I'd have to study them more first. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Apparition of Jack

[RareGodzilla]

I don't like the hate that incels get. A lot of them suffer form anxieties and disorders. I can't help but to feel sympathetic for them. Although I do admit that their frustrations manifest in toxic behaviour. And it's not really just about sex. There definitely is a social stigma if you can't "get laid". And there is also the companionship element. People need this.  I wish that something was done to help them to help them over just deleting their forums. It doesn't make the problem go away. 

[Leo Gura]

The trick with the internet is that it can be used for good or for devilry.

The wild west days of the internet are over. Internet is far too powerful a technology not to be regulated.

The internet could basically be exploited to create a new Nazi like movements and destabilize governments.

Balancing freedom vs regulation is very tricky. People do not appreciate how tricky it is.

[RawJudah]

@RareGodzilla The only solution for incels is to stop looking on the internet and go out and meet people in real life. Being sociable is 90% of the solution to getting laid. The solution is so simple but instead they sit there on forums playing the victim all day. Also, before the internet, there wasn't even the word 'incel'. They have literally created their own suffering with labels and playing the victim... Sad really!

[wk197]

9 hours ago, RawJudah said:

@RareGodzilla The only solution for incels is to stop looking on the internet and go out and meet people in real life. Being sociable is 90% of the solution to getting laid. The solution is so simple but instead they sit there on forums playing the victim all day. Also, before the internet, there wasn't even the word 'incel'. They have literally created their own suffering with labels and playing the victim... Sad really!

Bro, incels are down on their luck way before they enter incel communites. the solution isn't simple. these are people who tried their utmost to find girlfriends and even just normal friends in highschool and university and failed. the people on those communites crack jokes at the advice your giving which implies they've already tried it.

[RawJudah]

@wk197 do you have any other solutions then? Lol

[MAYA EL]

Rather its "aloud" or "leaked " on the internet it doesn't matter because it's all within the boundaries of the aloud information that we can play with . I promise you that nothing goes unnoticed on the internet no matter what people say about it.

[Hansu]

While I dont agree with the groups being silenced(their ideologies), I think that silencing them will just make the problem worse.

When we have sites like 8chan, the government can easily monitor the rate of radicalization. Then we censor the site and they go to deepweb and spread to forums that cannot be tracked as easily as something as public as 8chan. You raid one website, and the address to the next website will spread through word between the radicalized members, who now very likely feel like heroes fighting over freedom of speech which only unites them more.

When we let them have their forums, at least we know what they are up to.

I mean, if there was someone coming after the members of Actualized.org and the community, wouldn't we hide and continue doing our things in the shadow?

Edited September 16, 2019 by Hansu

[Moreira]

undesirable is your opinion, if you try to silence opposed opinions to yours, then you a re a dictator.

[Yog]

Its a modern version of Hitlers book burning.

Its sad to see it unfold this way.

By censoring it, all we are doing is pushing it into darkness. Where it will ofc, continue to grow, out of sight. With ever-present fuel. As of the last few years it is underground, it is deep web, it is not even digital ..... We'll have to deal somehow with this gamble. We do not have much to work with right now.

In a weird way, I place my faith in the unconscious wisdom of the regular Joe not to play these games and play some others.




 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Yog

[Odysseus]

@Yog Your comparison lacks nuance. Hitler burned books that represented modern thought. Books that pleaded for open-mindedness, against race theory, against oppression, for humanity and so on (like works of Thomas Mann, Sigmund Freud etc.). Hitler tried to stop progression. 

Here we're talking about idiologies that advocate regressive and oppressive solutions to modern problems. That doesn't mean one should silence or censor them though. 

 

[Yog]

@Odysseus

I do understand that and agree with it.
I also do think that "pathology" and "regression" are not things that are exclusive to the right. Thence the comparison.
Left wing virtues can also be weaponized and used in regressive ways, knowingly or unknowingly.
Something easily overlooked these days.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Yog