Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Zizzero I don't find libertarianism even worth discussing. It is not a serious position.

What if one were to integrate the pros of libertarianism and leave the cons of it behind?  What if we were to integrate all the major political theories in this pros and cons type way to sustainably solve actual political problems?  So, in that case, you don't wanna exclude or throw anything away, you wanna frankenstein solutions that make use of all the pros of the ideas we have but while simultaneously leaving the cons out.  So, libertarianism has pros and cons to it.  We don't wanna throw the baby about with the bathwater by thinking linearly about systems.  We wanna be more integral in how we look at political theories.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What if one were to integrate the pros of libertarianism and leave the cons of it behind?

That's already been done by any serious democratically-oriented person.

[Joseph Maynor]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's already been done by any serious democratically-oriented person.

What if we looked at Libertarianism point by point and checked each point.  We need to apply the paradox of the details and the general.  The general only takes you so far where you get locked into the habit of hand-waiving and dismissing entire systems without getting into the details of those systems at all.  No, you gotta get into the details of Libertarianism and see how those details can help solve specific political problems that you're made it your project to help solve.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Joseph Maynor I got better things to do.

You are free to study whatever ideology you want.

[Zizzero]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just one look at how foolish libertarian presidential candidates here in the US are tells you all you need to know. You can their videos on their conventions on Youtube. It's good for a night of laughs.

 

22 minutes ago, Zizzero said:

That's how it looks when you don't look at the philosophy, but at the people. Every political philsophy looks bad when you judge it by the average person who subscribes to it. That's why I used the word philosophy.

 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I once spent 12 hours straight binge-watching libertarian videos through the whole night until 6 in the morning. It was so funny it was like 12 hours of the best comedy I've ever watched.

Here's a good playlist of libertarian foolishness:

Watch out, it's so bad and so sad it's addictive.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Zizzero said:

These comments make you look like some guy on YouTube who calls feminists dumb because he saw a few "feminists get triggered by facts" videos. Just with different actors.

 

It's one thing to say that you don't see any value in discussing something. It's another thing to say that there is no value in discussing something.

[Aakash]

I've been sat here for 20 minutes trying to organise my thoughts on this whole topic as well as what I've read and honestly, i feel like crying. 

really, i'm lost for words and don't know how to articulate my thoughts on what i've read

Edited June 9, 2019 by Aakash

[electroBeam]

@Leo Gura I have a grandfather who acts like he knows the world very well. He tells me all about politics and what religion is right, what political ideologies are wrong, and he sounds very smart. He reads lots of books and does a lot of critical thinking. 

The problem is, he has never left his home country.

I fear you're following the same trap. Have you ever lived in a country, apart from the United States, for more that a year? Heck have you even done it for more than a month?

If all you're doing is watching videos and reading books, you're falling into the same trap as my grandfather. It might be wise for you to put more effort into your profession and actually live in a place other than the united states. 

 

And its not an excuse to say 'I'm God so I have all the answers, no matter where I am". 

This is not a critique on your views about libertarianism, its a critique on every view you have. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by electroBeam

[Leo Gura]

You guys are free to start a thread and beat this libertarian horse to death if you want. I will stay out of it.

9 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

And its not an excuse to say 'I'm God so I have all the answers, no matter where I am". 

This is not a critique on your views about libertarianism, its a critique on every view you have. 

It's just that once you're aware of enough things, you quickly sort the wheat from the chaff and don't waste your time entertaining silly things.

There are too many foolish ideologies in the world to debate them all seriously.

You are welcome to believe whatever you want.

My interest is in talking about conscious politics, which is at a completely different level than typical political discussions. But it is not neutral and it does not tolerate nonsense or devilry.

The thing is, people expect consciousness to be neutral towards their foolishness and devliry. But it isn't. Consciousness shreds through bullshit. So if your position has bullshit it in it, you may feel like you're being treated unfairly.

I don't have all the answers, but I have better answers than libertarians, that's for sure.

[Joseph Maynor]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor I got better things to do.

You are free to study whatever ideology you want.

I study theories and idea systems in order to practically integrate them and use them in my own personal/ interpersonal development work.  I don't really care about ideas as much as I care about applying them.  There's a reason the collective unconscious is what it is.  The ideas that are around have survived for some reason.  You wanna take the good from those and leave the bad behind and that's where you frankenstein sustainable solutions to particular problems you've identified that you wanna solve.  You don't wanna re-invent the wheel; you wanna optimize the wheel that's already there with more wisdom drawn from the world (the collective unconscious) not from the mind alone.  First you gotta identify an actual political problem that you wanna solve and turn that into a project.  Then look at the entire idea-field in order to help you get a sustainable solution to the problem that that project is addressing.  What is your Political Work project that you're implementing Leo?  What is the actual problem that your project is trying to solve or help solve?

Edited June 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I study them in order to practically integrate them and use them in my own personal/ interpersonal development work.  I don't really care about ideas as much as I care about applying them.  There's a reason the collective unconscious is what it is.  The ideas that are around have survived for some reason.  You wanna take the good from those and leave the bad behind and that's where you frankenstein sustainable solutions to particular problems you've identified that you wanna solve.  You don't wanna re-invent the wheel; you wanna optimize the wheel that's already there with more wisdom drawn from the world (the collective unconscious) not from the mind alone.

I have spent enough time listening to libertarians debating their talking points to the point where I don't feel I need to hear any more. I got it.

But if you haven't, sure, it might be worthwhile to do so just to see how foolish it is.

While you're at it you can study Nazi ideology, Communist ideology, alt-right ideology, and many more. There is value in studying foolish philosophies. But at some point you gotta let it all go because there's bigger fish to fry and real work to do, and life is short.

[Aakash]

@Joseph Maynor i completely disagree, i'm feeling very emotional right now so i can't express myself, so i'm going to clear my head first then i might respond

you know leo might say that we will experience an enlightened society and live on mars one day but i'm so sad that my ideology that i currently hold of myself is not going to be alive to see it. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Aakash

[Leo Gura]

@Zizzero Link to me 1 video of an intelligent analysis by a libertarian of how government works and why government exists.

I've never seen one.

If you do decide to link one, start a new thread about it because this thread has gotten derailed enough as it is.

[Joseph Maynor]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have spent enough time listening to libertarians debating their talking points to the point where I don't feel I need to hear any more. I got it.

But if you haven't, sure, it might be worthwhile to do so just to see how foolish it is.

While you're at it you can study Nazi ideology, Communist ideology, alt-right ideology, and many more. There is value in studying foolish philosophies. But at some point you gotta let it all go because there's bigger fish to fry and real work to do, and life is short.

I've already studied Communist ideology.  I don't think I need to study Alt-right ideology because I've already studied Conservative ideology.  I have to admit I'm still interested in studying Hitler and Nazi culture though.  Yeah.  Good conversation though Leo.  My bud!

Edited June 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aakash]

16 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

First you gotta identify an actual political problem that you wanna solve and turn that into a project.  Then look at the entire idea-field in order to help you get a sustainable solution to the problem that that project is addressing.

okay lets test this theory, 

how much should i pay at the toll booth to get into the state of california 

how much can i ethically charge before it becomes extortion 

what does it mean to extort 

how much should each state charge to make profit for their political agendas? 

 

this is one example of countless situations which have not been thought about when discussing government and politics 

lets say this is the project, how do i apply libertarian and conservative viewpoints to this project (the healthy parts)? 

[Joseph Maynor]

9 minutes ago, Aakash said:

okay lets test this theory, 

how much should i pay at the toll booth to get into the state of california 

how much can i ethically charge before it becomes extortion 

what does it mean to extort 

how much should each state charge to make profit for their political agendas? 

 

this is one example of countless situations which have not been thought about when discussing government and politics 

lets say this is the project, how do i apply libertarian and conservative viewpoints to this project (the healthy parts)? 

First of all you gotta find a political problem that you can help solve.  Then you gotta create and develop a force that can sustainably solve that problem.  You gotta select a political problem to solve just like you select your wife or your work colleagues -- very carefully.  Maybe you can list 10 actual political problems that you can help solve in your life with your time and energy.  You need to select those problems vary carefully; this is called the selection process.  This is Political Work as an aspect of Personal/Interpersonal Development Work.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aakash]

Can you list me some political problems so were on the same page (just for my understanding to get on level playing terms) 

my point is, these are things that are considered when dealing with finance, that delve into greater political agendas on scales that the war between right vs left philosophies fight. Does the average person including yourself and i, know that when were talking about politics were actually talking about changing laws, laws literally define what is and what is not reality. Thats its not actually science that is doing the major part of this maya we are living in? 

why? because we have all agreed laws to be absolutes. you don't have the instinct to kill people not mostly because of your moral philosophy, but because there is a law restricting you to. Otherwise you would have killed a girlfriend in your past for dumping you, since morality is challenged during times of emotion as they are not absolutes, we agree as society that everyone is different. However, we don't agree as society that laws are not absolute. 

 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Aakash said:

how much should i pay at the toll booth to get into the state of california

The real problems are systemic and much bigger picture than that.

Here are some basic problems:

• Improving education to make it more conscious
• Reducing waste on military-industrial complex
• Making it easier for all people to vote without discrimination
• Eliminating corporate lobbying and money corrupting politics
• Retraining the police so they don't shoot unarmed black folks
• Protecting the environment from destruction and toxic pollution
• Ending the drug war and for-profit prison system
• Regulating the banks so they don't crash the economy
• Regulating giant monopolistic companies like Amazon from dominating everyone else
• Making medical care affordable for everyone
• Making college affordable for everyone without massive debt
• Redistributing wealth so we have a thriving middle class, not a handful of billionaires
• Putting workers on all the boards of major corporations
• Helping young teens find their life purposes & train them for passion jobs
• Helping train people to start small businesses & giving them funding
• Funding for scientific & medical research
• Improving basic infrastructure like road, bridges, airports, schools
• Massive push for green energy
• Allowing people to vote for directly on propositions at the federal level the way they can at the state level
• Public funding of all elections
• Strengthening people's ability to unionize
• Regulating the giant telcoms
• Giving Constitutional protections to whistlerblowers like Ed Snowden
• Increasing government transparency across the board

Stuff like that

The bottom line is that we're trying to structure society in a way which enables more people to meet their basic needs and pursue higher consciousness without a lot of obstacles. How should society be restructured to facilitate that? How do we get as many people up the Spiral as fast as possible?

See, most people don't even understand that the goal of government should be CONSCIOUSNESS! If we could just get people to realize that, half our problems would be solved. But of course they will NOT agree! They will resist. Because most people's goal is to use government for advancing their own egoic agenda. That's when the shitstorm ensues.

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Improving education to make it more conscious

• Reducing waste on military-industrial complex
• Making it easier for all people to vote without discrimination
• Eliminating corporate lobbying and money corrupting politics
• Retraining the police so they don't shoot unarmed black folks
• Protecting the environment from destruction and toxic pollution
• Ending the drug war and for-profit prison system
• Regulating the banks so they don't crash the economy
• Regulating giant monopolistic companies like Amazon from dominating everyone else
• Making medical care affordable for everyone

Now we're talkin'.  Good list.  Now you're gonna do something about these problems yourself Leo?  This is what you think you're gonna solve with your time and efforts?

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura  Yeah, i know this myself but others i'm not so sure about. Its just i feel people don't understand how large of a section government and politics is. everything is simplified to its easiest one liner ... "ohh we should build a wall because we know opium poppies are used in columbia to make cocaine and its being smuggled in from mexico and this is affecting our children" OR  "we should stop unemployment" BUT they drastically underestimate how big of a feild it is and then they say they're right or left for this reason. 

When they don't even understand how money supply even works! its easy to put everything into big bubbles and fight with each other. but nobody seems to understand how things work man. 

SHIT MAN, you got me real upset man! thinking i've done this much consciousness work and never once thought of all those things that you mentioned. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Now we're talkin'.  Good list.  Now you're gonna do something about these problems yourself Leo?  This is what you think you're gonna solve with your time and efforts?

My contribution is to make people aware of the problems and the solutions. To get them thinking properly. To install the proper mind OS. That's how philosophers and intellectuals contribute to advances in government.

Of course I'm not gonna run for office. That's not my role. My role is intellectual, visionary, and inspirational.

I would not make a good politician. I've said too many crazy things and I'm not really a people person.