A few questions about psychedelics

[Nahm]

@ColdFacts You are overthinking but using thought to assess if that is true.  Every foundation of your thinking is false. Psychedelics are great for this.  

 

[Consilience]

If you think it takes mindsets to become conscious of what being or ultimate truth are, that itself is a belief, a mindset. You need to research epistemology and have a conceptual understanding of why this work is not about creating mindsets before you can ultimately transcend them. 

Psychedelics make this point abundantly clear because of how powerfully they blow apart the human mind, and force you to see reality as itself, not as what your egoic mind cling to on a daily basis.

Anyways, Im done replying. Good luck on your journey brother.

[ColdFacts]

My friends, i am sorry to conclude that you are all addicts, not to the substance no, but to the wrong information enforced by those substances, when that happened it gave freedom to all kinds of feelings which build their fortresses in your mind which now rule it.

[Consilience]

2 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

The authority of the information in your head was altered, meditation gives it the right authority unlike the substances.

Wait now last post,

The duality of sobriety and intoxicated must be transcended young grasshopper

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

Again we can see that the addiction or emotional resistance using information to defend itself, all this what you said could have been in your head before but it was with more authority after the use of the substance, before when you first learned about all this i wasn't installed like this. You have build upon this a lot of things, genuine real emotion on the normal phase of your body, that will resist like crazy and together with that the false information you might have installed with the susbtance.

The mind can become immersed in thought stories and become attached and identified to such stories.

The title of your thread was “A few questions about psychedelics”. Yet, it doesn’t seem like your mind has any questions at all. It doesn’t appear to be curious and open to explore. Rather, it seems to have entered with pre-conceived notions it wants to defend, argue and convince others of. This is a contracted mindset. A key feature of expanding our consciousness is to let go of our stories and beliefs that the ego is attached to and identified with. This can be quite uncomfortable.

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

The mind can become immersed in thought stories and become attached and identified to such stories.

The title of your thread was “A few questions about psychedelics”. Yet, it doesn’t seem like your mind has any questions at all. It doesn’t appear to be curious and open to explore. Rather, it seems to have entered with pre-conceived notions it wants to defend, argue and convince others of. This is a contracted mindset. A key feature of expanding our consciousness is to let go of our stories and beliefs that the ego is attached to and identified with. This can be quite uncomfortable.

I am so sorry to see your state.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

I am so sorry to see your state.

There is nothing to be sorry for. You are creating it all in a thought story.

[OctagonOctopus]

@ColdFacts

Did you come here to learn? Be 100% honest with yourself on why you started this topic. Do you want to explore other peoples perspectives, or enforce your own? Have you tried a psychedellic before? If not don't you think it would be more wise to listen to others expirences? 

Edited May 27, 2019 by OctagonOctopus

[ColdFacts]

11 minutes ago, OctagonOctopus said:

@ColdFacts

Did you come here to learn? Be 100% honest with yourself on why you started this topic. Do you want to explore other peoples perspectives, or enforce your own? Have you tried a psychedellic before? If not don't you think it would be more wise to listen to others expirences? 

Your life won't be that bad unless you start finding reasons to harm people which i can't see happening. It's not that bad, it's just that you will never be able to share those experiences with others unless they take it as well, and you won't be able to apply it to reality unless it also takes the a "reality" psychedelic which of course doesn't exist. 

[OctagonOctopus]

8 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

...you won't be able to apply it to reality unless it also takes the a "reality" psychedelic which of course doesn't exist. 

What makes you think you won't be able to apply what you learned with a psychedelic? 

[Shaun]

Just because we can't directly experience an objective external reality, why is it we assume that there's no such thing? 

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Just because we can't directly experience an objective external reality, why is it we assume that there's no such thing? 

This question may be looking to “breakthrough” objectivism to absolute. If so, ime direct experience is key. From direct experience of absolute, the human mind will naturally want to build constructs to make sense of it and provide the mind and body with a sense of grounding. This is a very different orientation than a mind-body lacking direct experience trying to figure out what it might be like by intellectualizing. 

[outlandish]

@ColdFacts 

Unlike anaesthetics, psychedelics don't stop information from entering your brain. They open your brain way up and amplify the information entering your mind, reduce filtering conditioning, and categorizing. It also amplifies connections between different thought-areas and reveals or enhances underlying patterns that you normally unconsciously ignore.

On the side of caution: Psychedelics can show you patterns were there are in fact none, which you could mistake for being objectively real. They can leave you over-exposed to negative or unsafe environment, or amplify negative thought patterns if you go choose to dwell on them. This is why everyone talks about the importance of set and setting. And why psychedelic experiences need to be tempered with plenty of sober reflection and integration.

 

7 hours ago, ColdFacts said:

It's awareness in that state recommended by nature that created science, and religion too and everything we know so far that has value. If you can't trust your hands with distorted information processing why should you trust your own brain with distorted information processing? 

Yet we know from experiments in perception, optical illusions, cognitive bias, that our default mode of consciousness is flawed and we there is no such thing as undistorted information processing. Our brains/minds/egos distort information and interpret it as convenient to its near range survival, full stop.

Psychedelics consciousness isn't superior to the default mode crafted by evolution over the millions of years that built up to modern homo sapiens. It's just different, and many of us find it extremely useful and productive to occasionally turn down the egoistic categorization of reality, lower the filters, and turn up the inputs.

[ColdFacts]

7 minutes ago, outlandish said:

@ColdFacts 

Unlike anaesthetics, psychedelics don't stop information from entering your brain. They open your brain way up and amplify the information entering your mind, reduce filtering conditioning, and categorizing. It also amplifies connections between different thought-areas and reveals or enhances underlying patterns that you normally unconsciously ignore.

On the side of caution: Psychedelics can show you patterns were there are in fact none, which you could mistake for being objectively real. They can leave you over-exposed to negative or unsafe environment, or amplify negative thought patterns if you go choose to dwell on them. This is why everyone talks about the importance of set and setting. And why psychedelic experiences need to be tempered with plenty of sober reflection and integration.

 

Yet we know from experiments in perception, optical illusions, cognitive bias, that our default mode of consciousness is flawed and we there is no such thing as undistorted information processing. Our brains/minds/egos distort information and interpret it as convenient to its near range survival, full stop.

Psychedelics consciousness isn't superior to the default mode crafted by evolution over the millions of years that built up to modern homo sapiens. It's just different, and many of us find it extremely useful and productive to occasionally turn down the egoistic categorization of reality, lower the filters, and turn up the inputs.

No professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said, but they are deluded maybe.

[outlandish]

3 minutes ago, ColdFacts said:

No professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said, but they are deluded maybe.

Which part(s) do you think they disagree with?

I have a pretty strong science background in science myself (technically I am a "Scientist" professionally), and most of my friends come out of the sciences. I'd say that most anyone who's studied biology, the brain, perception is aware that as humans we don't somehow have a perfect sense of an objective reality.

Common optical illusions are the easiest way to prove this point.

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, outlandish said:

Which part(s) do you think they disagree with?

I have a pretty strong science background in science myself (technically I am a "Scientist" professionally), and most of my friends come out of the sciences. I'd say that most anyone who's studied biology, the brain, perception is aware that as humans we don't somehow have a perfect sense of an objective reality.

Common optical illusions are the easiest way to prove this point.

Who said that we have perfect sense of reality, me??? You want me to reject that so you can use it to make a point for something else but you don't know this. Of course we are far from perfect but those things won't make it any better, they will just enforce any idea which you can't deny or prove in reality and make it more true because it messes with your senses. I was disagreeing with the physiological part which you tried to describe, go talk to a professional about this they will give you a detailed explanation about this, if you were so interested you would have done it long ago and would have no doubts about this but you know what they will say and you don't like that.

[outlandish]

@ColdFacts No I'm not saying that you said we had a perfect sense of reality. You don't need to be so defensive, I'm not attacking you.

Your previous message simply said that: "No professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said". My underlying point was that we don't perceive a perfect sense of reality, which is something that I'm quite certain almost any well educated professional in science or human physiology would agree about. Therefore I argue that your statement that "no professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said" is incorrect.

I'm not trying to say that psychedelics give us a better perception. It's a different perception. It's a different and extremely useful mode of experiencing reality.

It's like a telescope. No one would say that a telescope is a better way to look at the world. It's just different and extremely useful for looking at the stars. Analogously, psychedelics are extremely useful for looking at the mind.

If you don't believe it, that's fine, no one is going to force you to take psychedelics!

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, outlandish said:

@ColdFacts No I'm not saying that you said we had a perfect sense of reality. You don't need to be so defensive, I'm not attacking you.

Your previous message simply said that: "No professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said". My underlying point was that we don't perceive a perfect sense of reality, which is something that I'm quite certain almost any well educated professional in science or human physiology would agree about. Therefore I argue that your statement that "no professional in either science or human physiology will agree on anything you said" is incorrect.

I'm not trying to say that psychedelics give us a better perception. It's a different perception. It's a different and extremely useful mode of experiencing reality.

It's like a telescope. No one would say that a telescope is a better way to look at the world. It's just different and extremely useful for looking at the stars. Analogously, psychedelics are extremely useful for looking at the mind.

If you don't believe it, that's fine, no one is going to force you to take psychedelics!

You're looking at every angle to get your point hence the over analysis on what i said, topic was psychedelics. Whatever perception you get from them is equal in value to obtaing some of that stuff and snorting it plus whatever beliefs, thinking, ect you had prior to getting it, as you can see it will just enforce wrongly any information you had before taking it, when you are high it is easy to convince yourself of those truths spoken by enlightened people, why because you can't tell night from day, and then you go on taking that experience as if it is equal to experiences without taking that stuff and you get what you people have in mind right now, which has no correlation with anything. 

[OctagonOctopus]

@ColdFacts 

How does it make the information 'wrong'? When one takes a psychedelic it allows you to see all of your thoughts, beliefs, and feelings from a different perspective. What makes this perspective 'wrong'? 

[ColdFacts]

1 minute ago, OctagonOctopus said:

@ColdFacts 

How does it make the information 'wrong'? When one takes a psychedelic it allows you to see all of your thoughts, beliefs, and feelings from a different perspective. What makes this perspective 'wrong'? 

Because it overrides all of your senses, everything in that state is equal to that substance. Do you think everything is equal to that substance? Because when you take it sure as hell it does, because you're out of our mind. How can you miss this??? If i sedate you all the time from morning to evening, do you think that life is equal to sleepy and tiredness? When you come out of that state do you really think that is the case, that experience is to be trusted, how is that then any different from anything else that you take? Oh no this one is special because it makes it easy to install enlightenment program, not is isn't special at all.