How can Sadhguru initiate so many people into a non-dual experience at once?

[mandyjw]

There's a really powerful collective energy that comes from having a crowd of people with one intention. That's the reason some people love going to concerts so much. It's easy to tap into energy from an awakened person and if you do it enough you get better at it. You can even do it through videos and recordings. It's a great tool. I'm guessing it's even more powerful in person. 

[Devansh Saharan]

4 hours ago, Chi_ said:

I would very much love to and trying my best to go there whenever I get the chance. However for now I try to attend the Isha courses given in Europe. What about you? Any plans? 

 

I intend to go for Bhava Spandana (BSP) anytime when it's available next, I live in India so its comparatively easy for me to go. Hope to see you there whenever fate allows, ?

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Chi_ said:

I agree that finding the Inner guru is all it really takes to succeed in the spiritual path but beings like Sadhguru have also created huge waves of consciousness in this world. What is your honest opinion of him and have you ever thought of maybe getting guidance under a real guru such as him to boost your spiritual journey? I'm very curious to your opinion.

A) I have no problem with Sadhguru. He is clearly doing God's work in a masterful way.

B) With that said, you can still easily gets bamboozled, not by him, but by your own mind's worshiping of him. It's precisely because he's so good that you will tend to become dependent on him as your spiritual daddy/authority, which would create a subtle duality in your consciousness and prevent you from thinking independently and walking your own unique path.

C) I have gotten guidance under many real gurus. After I get my guidance I go my own way. I don't hang around to fawn over them, nor do I expect them to do my work for me. I also realize the partiality of any guru's teachings.

The better the teacher, the greater the problem. See that?

[Aldo]

@Leo Gura  I agree with most of what you're saying but i think there are many people who have chosen the path of devotion towards a master and have grown a lot. In the case of sadhguru he has many devoties or brahmacharies that he is working with. Those people have achived astonishing levels of growth.

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura do you feel teachers, despite their understanding, feel like they're doing a disservice when these people fawn them (assuming they're not intentionally feeding this behavior and are genuinely trying to elevate others).

I personally have this qualm within myself when I think about making spirituality a route for Life Purpose and on the one hand I'm inspired by the obvious of really helping people and creating new innovative systems and what not to elevate others but at the same time, I find the idea of (if I were to get to this point in my development, I'm just posing a hypothetical) people really becoming needy/dependent and playing that game to be a truly nauseating one. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

@Leo Gura  I agree with most of what you're saying but i think there are many people who have chosen the path of devotion towards a master and have grown a lot. In the case of sadhguru he has many devoties or brahmacharies that he is working with. Those people have achived astonishing levels of growth.

Sure, that's a possible path.

But what I teach with Actualized.org is a DIY approach to life and spirituality. Be your own guru sorta thing. That's my bias.

Do whatever you want. You will anyway.

[Aldo]

@Leo Gura  I think you would resinate a lot with UG Krishnamurti. He is a very controversial guru committed to destroying all beliefs about spirituality.

 

[kieranperez]

17 minutes ago, Aldo said:

@Leo Gura  I think you would resinate a lot with UG Krishnamurti. He is a very controversial guru committed to destroying all beliefs about spirituality.

 

That in itself becomes an ideology for his followers... and often that whole “dedication” to fight dogma tends to just be a dogma against dogma. 

Meta dogma ???

[Aldo]

@kieranperez thats an ideology that says your whole life is build upon ideologies.

[kieranperez]

@Aldo lol I don’t where you’re getting that from but hats off for being able to pull that out of nowhere.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Aldo said:

@Leo Gura  I think you would resinate a lot with UG Krishnamurti. He is a very controversial guru committed to destroying all beliefs about spirituality.

 

I don't like his approach. It's far too simplistic, black and white, and non-integral. It does not recognize that people are at very different stages of development. For a stage Red person, belief in Christ can be a positive life transforming event which moves him up to Blue, and it is legit spirituality, just not the highest level of nondual awakening.

Nor do I think he has realized the deepest level of awakening.

Mindlessly destroying all beliefs not going to cut it. 

I would much rather you follow Sadhguru than that guy.

[Leo Gura]

@kieranperez A high quality guru will not let you fawn over them.

It is critical in this work to stand on your own two feet. You must become totally self-guiding in the end, otherwise you have not realized your full Godhood. As God you can have no one to hold your hand. You must become your own authority.

For this reason I do not agree with the path of devotion. To me it is not the highest path. It still has that subtle duality of me vs my guru. That must collapse.

There is only one thing in the universe: YOU!

It feels very good to not need any gurus. You take full ownership of your creation. Of course you can still learn from people. I learn from 100s of sources. I just keep a professional distance. I don't try to crawl up their holy ass hole.

[purerogue]

Sadhguru himself said that devotion is good starting point if you want, but it can't get you to the end.

Personally think that people who chose devotion have very huge problems to get out of it afterwards. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by purerogue

[Leo Gura]

@purerogue That's cause Sadhguru's a good guru. Which is precisely why he's so dangerous for his followers.

No matter how much he tells them not to worship him, that will only make them worship him more.

It's like telling a girl you don't like her. She will only get more attracted.

And if you tell a girl "I'm never having sex with you." She will only want to have sex with you all the more.

Reverse psychology 101

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura couldn’t agree more.

I guess I just have this belief of “well since it’s mostly done this way as this power dynamic, I can’t really do it the way I want which is to elevate people in their consciousness and potential such that they don’t need me anymore”. 

Isn’t there the question though on the importance of utilizing a responsible relationship to having a hierarchy? 

Sometimes when I brainstorm ideas for how I can create this impact I immediately get stuck in the usual starting a center/Ashram kinda thing and though, I love that idea but... the whole point of that is to still have a committed following right?

Right now I’m in a heavy limbo phase so I’m still mostly unclear but I’m just pointing out the rut I tend to get caught in. 

[Devansh Saharan]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@purerogue That's cause Sadhguru's a good guru. Which is precisely why he's so dangerous for his followers.

No matter how much he tells them not to worship him, that will only make them worship him more.

It's like telling a girl you don't like her. She will only get more attracted.

And if you tell a girl "I'm never having sex with you." She will only want to have sex with you all the more.

Reverse psychology 101

Indeed. Sadhguru has said numerous times that you just have to use him as a tool forward, nothing else. But yeah as you said it's really easy to fall into the Guru vs You duality, i fact I would say I'm pretty much affected. Thanks Leo, this was certainly really helpful and I'll keep that in mind. 

 

16 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Sadhguru himself said that devotion is good starting point if you want, but it can't get you to the end.

Personally think that people who chose devotion have very huge problems to get out of it afterwards. 

Indeed getting out of it by that time would be too much of a thing, as far as I'm aware of the IYC dynamics, Sadhguru is GOD. In fact my IE(inner-engineering) teacher always said all that he has experienced and happening is due to Sadhguru and you could see devotion spilling out of him. So yeah, gotta beware of that. 

 

13 hours ago, mandyjw said:

There's a really powerful collective energy that comes from having a crowd of people with one intention. That's the reason some people love going to concerts so much. It's easy to tap into energy from an awakened person. 

Sadhguru isn't there in person, and I'm pretty sure 90% of the people when they come there have no idea what they're into. 

[Shin]

How can you initiate so many of yourself into a you experience.

That's the real question

?

[kieranperez]

5 minutes ago, Devansh Saharan said:

Indeed getting out of it by that time would be too much of a thing, as far as I'm aware of the IYC dynamics, Sadhguru is GOD. In fact my IE(inner-engineering) teacher always said all that he has experienced and happening is due to Sadhguru and you could see devotion spilling out of him. So yeah, gotta beware of that. 

I think it’s also important to consider that a lot of that probably comes as a result of actually meeting a highly evolved master who probably embodies these realizations on the highest level. I mean, Buddha and other sages/mystics like in “recent times” like Ramana Maharishi we’re revered as God for a reason and I don’t think it’s an accident that happens. I think when you have a person like that whose teaching (especially to masses like the ones he’s reaching) in person, that’s going to happen. It’s going to spill over. I see posts from certain of his monks who don’t even want liberation because they want have enough karma left to serve their guru. To me as someone who might want to pursue enlightenment as a life purpose in terms of impact in the future, I feel sour in my stomach because I wouldn’t want that. That’s why I tend to love the way Buddhism portrays the enlightened person. A nobody. Nobody special. They’re there for the next hero and to be of service. Even in the monastery system with how a Zen school will actually reject you. I think that a genius deliberate approach which I really respect so as to not corrupt people. That’s just for me personally, sits well with me.

[who chit]

What is spilling/flowing out of Sadhguru is choiceless love, the divine love of the Absolute, not a personal love. It's the unconditional love of That, that is mistaken as love coming from an individual/person. When the divine awakened, the illusion of individuality was lost and union with the Absolute, is the SadhGuru. He's not the form,person or individual, and that's the trap devotees fall into. They are identified with the form that is only a conduit for the divine formless that is manifesting through it. Love is it's nature, and that love is trying to show them that,that is what they are also. Guru means 'dispeller of darkness" and all a real guru does is try to get you to realize/see that, that divine nature is what you are also. Once that happens, you see the real guru beyond the physical form for the first time and you see what he really is and subsequently, what you are also.  The guru's job is to draw you in, and once you're drawn in, he throws you back into yourself. Then he disappears. His job is done. 

If you watch this clip, notice how Sadhguru, through questioning and an articulate use of direct and simple language, is used to bypass too much intellectualizing by the listener. Through questioning he's getting you, or trying to get you to stop for a second and look into yourself (throwing you back into yourself),to see if it is true and not just blindly accepting or taking for granted  what he's saying. Experientially seeing what is true, and not accumulating more useless knowledge.
 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by who chit

[Chi_]

On 5/8/2019 at 8:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

A) I have no problem with Sadhguru. He is clearly doing God's work in a masterful way.

B) With that said, you can still easily gets bamboozled, not by him, but by your own mind's worshiping of him. It's precisely because he's so good that you will tend to become dependent on him as your spiritual daddy/authority, which would create a subtle duality in your consciousness and prevent you from thinking independently and walking your own unique path.

C) I have gotten guidance under many real gurus. After I get my guidance I go my own way. I don't hang around to fawn over them, nor do I expect them to do my work for me. I also realize the partiality of any guru's teachings.

The better the teacher, the greater the problem. See that?

Thank you for that because I can see how my mind could possibly fall into the trap of guru worship and becoming dependent on Sadhguru solely. I am keeping an eye out for that from now on