Non-Duality and Veganism

[mandyjw]

@Mikael89 I feed my dog meat. Should I put him to sleep for being a murderer? Forgive yourself. You're already perfect.

@pluto I recently discovered that too accidentally. Spiritual awakening/easiest/most difficult diet I've ever tried. 

[mandyjw]

@Mikael89 What if I said that I love you the same that I love my dog? I want you to live your life without a single thought of guilt. 

[pluto]

@mandyjw Both a curse and a blessing, we can however pick which one we prefer

[now is forever]

13 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Listen , you are full of shit

You start by accusing me of some silly stuff that I did not even say  and make some no sense comments to try to prove your point, it is like you make new  story of what I told and then start to explain how I was wrong in this story. 

 

well you said people get health problems from vegan diet, well they get health problems from eating dairy and meat, too. so what’s you point in pointing it out one dimensional? vegan is unhealthy? yes but every diet is unhealthy if it’s not balanced. veganism is a mixture of health and spirituality. eating meat and dairy, too.

i feel better with veganism.

[now is forever]

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Mikael89 I feed my dog meat. Should I put him to sleep for being a murderer? Forgive yourself. You're already perfect.

@pluto I recently discovered that too accidentally. Spiritual awakening/easiest/most difficult diet I've ever tried. 

there is vegetarian dog food.

when i was a child i met the most loving vegan dog - he loved cucumbers. and it was not even a time when vegan dog food existed.

Edited April 22, 2019 by now is forever

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Doesn't matter. Because unlike your dog, I have a intellect and other fancy stuff, so I can make choices and act to make the world a better place.

My dog does TOO have intellect and other fancy stuff, and he can make choices and he definitely acts to make the world a better place. He's even a spiritual teacher on youtube. I'd choose your life over his given the chance but still, that doesn't mean he isn't incredibly valuable. 

3 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Are you telling me that it's not ok to be a vegetarian, that I should eat meat? Then I'm not perfect as I am (as a vegetarian). But.. okay, you probably think that I'm perfect as a vegetarian too, so nvm.

No, I'm saying it doesn't matter what you eat, or what animals you accidentally kill in the process. 

[now is forever]

@mandyjw for some people your dog is only food. it doesn’t concern them that it is a dog that’s loved. would you eat your dog if you‘d run out of food? how would you feel if someone served your dog on a tablet, with some lemonjuice on top?

see how sneaky this selfdeception is - do you really love unconditionally?

Edited April 22, 2019 by now is forever

[mandyjw]

6 minutes ago, now is forever said:

there is vegetarian dog food.

when i was a child i met the most loving vegan dog - he loved cucumbers. and it was not even a time when vegan dog food existed.

Some dogs can stomach it and some can't. We created a lot of suffering in deer populations by killing off all their natural predators. The cycle of life can't be frozen at some random point that we decide is preferable. 

[now is forever]

@mandyjw we hold predators as friends and love them because we are predators ourselves.

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@mandyjw for some people your dog is only food. it doesn’t concern them that it is a dog that’s loved. would you eat your dog if you‘d run out of food? how would you feel if someone served your dog on a tablet, with some lemonjuice on top?

see how sneaky this selfdeception is - do you really love unconditionally?

Yep. If he was the last thing to eat, I'd eat him. They did this in World War 2. The doberman breed was almost lost. What other choice did they have? 

My dog has been "dying" for two years now. I've cried over him and said goodbye thinking that was it several times. He's my spiritual teacher. He taught me how to let go of love and beauty and companionship, and that if I did let go it could never really leave me anyway. 

[Aeris]

not a problem for me.

I kill for beauty.

the problem is if the air start to be toxic because we eat meat.

only then my why I do A or B change > and then maybe I would stop eating it.

I eat balanced to live the best, I don't care about lifeform killing, I care about my "karma field" though, and the energic aura that is on me and my cultural surrounding.

i would not eat goose "foie gras" / because that's torturing and makings humans do it, that increase my chance of being around psycho and in a cultural psycho society.

I didn't choose my programmation anyway. One way or the others it doesn't bother me. I would eat it anyway, I just play some part of the game.

free will is a duality, because there is no free will absolute, no free will, even past awakening, no choice, no meditation, no better lvl, nothing.

just the road that unfold, the rest is all the story.

Only the delusion of awakening and past awakening,

it's a never ending conceptual, relative self absolute bullshit.

 

What about transcend for real the pov, kill all our biologic body and go into one that is "one", it would be over soon

Edited April 22, 2019 by Aeris

[purerogue]

9 minutes ago, now is forever said:

well you said people get health problems from vegan diet, well they get health problems from eating dairy and meat, too. so what’s you point in pointing it out one dimensional? vegan is unhealthy? yes but every diet is unhealthy if it’s not balanced. veganism is a mixture of health and spirituality. eating meat and dairy, too.

i feel better with veganism.

I did not say that vegan diet is unhealthy and meat is healthy, I just pointed out that just because vegan diet , or vegetarian diet worked out for him , does not mean that other people will not have health problems from such diet,  he was putting his experience as universal law that for some reason should work for everyone, just because it works for him.  

It is you who put it as one dimensional, when there was nothing really in my comment to make it one dimensional. 

[now is forever]

Just now, purerogue said:

I did not say that vegan diet is unhealthy and meat is healthy, I just pointed out that just because vegan diet , or vegetarian diet worked out for him , does not mean that other people will not have health problems from such diet,  he was putting his experience as universal law that for some reason should work for everyone, just because it works for him.  

It is you who put it as one dimensional, when there was nothing really in my comment to make it one dimensional. 

that’s because dualities exist if you are aware of it or not. that makes it one dimensional. if you want to see the whole you need to see both ends. and transcending that means: to see that every diet has healthy and unhealthy aspects, but some are more unhealthy than others and some exclude health from being healthy because the ingredients themselves are not healthy. while others don’t exclude healthy because their unhealthyness is because of a lack of ingredients and as we live in an industrialized world, can be supplemented. 

thanks for representing the other cat!

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@mandyjw we hold predators as friends and love them because we are predators ourselves.

Yes! I want a pet tiger next.  

@Mikael89 The way they are raised for meat is a symptom of a very unconscious society. That is a valid concern. If I was legally allowed to do so I would eat all locally hunted deer and moose meat. The only way i can get it is if someone gives me some. For now I buy free range, grassfed and hope that they were raised in better conditions. I admire anyone who can be vegan or vegetarian, I just don't feel good eating that way right now. Maybe someday. 

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

I see.

Well it's nice that you love me and would choose my life over his. I love you too.

-------------------------

This point is difficult or impossible to evade:

>> Would you want to be packed together with humans, on a tight space, and then get killed and eaten? <<

(I'm not sure if they actually see their fellow beings getting killed while they wait for their turn, so I left that out. And I don't know if they know they will get killed, so I left that out too.)

If no:

Then I can't see how one can justify meat eating. Because the cows etc. are You.

Everything is consciousness, the grass , the tree , vegetables you eat are all conscious, air your breath, it is just matter of how complex it is,  

[Rilles]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Would you want to be packed together with humans, on a tight space, and then get killed and eaten? <<

I’d like to add

Cows get separated from their young

Pigs and others get knocked / stunned unconscious and cut open while still being alive

Certain animals get gassed with carbon dioxide , used to be legal in Sweden, don’t think it is anymore. 

Chickens get their beaks cut off

 

All this while being alive

Its not just killing, its torture on a whole nother level. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Rilles

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

Cool. But you didn't answer the question.

@Rilles Thanks for adding that.

I do not believe in justification in full sense, if you will try to justify all of your actions you will soon realize that it is not possible and you will have to do 

things that you might find unethical just because actions have consequences in all directions, you will  make your life  one huge suffering just so you can escape few more unethical things.

 

 

 

[now is forever]

well all in all regarding spirituality, veganism is really a mindset that can only be achieved by practicing it. it’s a sort of meditation and awareness training if you never experienced it you can’t know, it’s like with enlightenment. it changes the way in how someone percives the world. it changes conciousness. that’s why vegetarianism is part of buddhist diet, there is no way around it. you can‘t just think it through it’s a form of practicing real unconditional love.

Edited April 22, 2019 by now is forever

[mandyjw]

@now is forever Veganism is a diet, not a religion. Everything changes consciousness. 

[now is forever]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@now is forever Veganism is a diet, not a religion. Everything changes consciousness. 

no it’s not a religion it’s a philosophy and  it’s spirituality and it’s art.

Edited April 22, 2019 by now is forever