I think psychedelics can blunt spiritual progress. thoughts?

[now is forever]

@corndjorn are you? 

generally it was not about the psychedelics it was about the claims you made.

am i? who knows?

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor But Joseph we already learnt the domain of truth is larger than the domain of proof.

Someone so firmly established in turquoise/coral should know better! 

Edited February 3, 2019 by DnoReally

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

@Joseph Maynor But Joseph we already learnt the domain of truth is larger than the domain of proof.

Someone so firmly established in turquoise/coral should know better! 

I can smell BS.  Sue me.  Your philosophical argument carries no water with my 41 years of actual experience dealing with reality and the human bullshitting animal.  

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Whats wrong with what hes saying then? Don't worry I won't demand proof, I just want a perspective.

[Joseph Maynor]

20 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

@Joseph Maynor Whats wrong with what hes saying then? Don't worry I won't demand proof, I just want a perspective.

You want a perspective.  Leo said it -- "mankind is the bullshitting animal".  This applies to Spiritual Egos as well. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Thats some stage infrared wisdom right there 

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Yes, I'm half asleep dont worry if what I say may seem like incoherent rambling to you. Didn't this whole thing start with him saying that an enlightened person is inherently (sorta per definition) free of ego. I just wanted to know why you take issue with that.

Edited February 3, 2019 by DnoReally

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

@Joseph Maynor Yes, I'm half asleep dont worry if what I say may seem incoherent to you. Didn't this whole thing start with him saying that an enlightened person is inherently (sorta per definition) free of ego. I just wanted to know why you take issue with that.

I'm in a weird place in that I'm a fan of Enlightenment Work but I am also see a lot of bullshit that goes along with it too.  It's a very odd place to be on the Path.  

Video on point to watch:

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor sometimes in life there are breadcrumbs of truth, even though it doesnt show itself fully (because im not in complete nonduality and havent met one yet) but in my experience and others that ive discussed with in the zen domain, there is indeed a complete enlightenment and process of ego dissolution thats occuring to many people who stabilized in nonduality for a while. and its not like its a new discussion, buddhist zen and other traditions have been discussing this for thousands of years. shit, even normal people go through this process, but probably unconscious, each time life triggers their attachments they have an oppurtunity of egoic dissolution. i think you shouldnt be quick to call bs, no need to believe either just be open to the possibility.

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, corndjorn said:

@Joseph Maynor sometimes in life there are breadcrumbs of truth, even though it doesnt show itself fully (because im not in complete nonduality and havent met one yet) but in my experience and others that ive discussed with in the zen domain, there is indeed a complete enlightenment and process of ego dissolution thats occuring to many people who stabilized in nonduality for a while. and its not like its a new discussion, buddhist zen and other traditions have been discussing this for thousands of years. shit, even normal people go through this process, but probably unconscious, each time life triggers their attachments they have an oppurtunity of egoic dissolution. i think you shouldnt be quick to call bs, no need to believe either just be open to the possibility.

You won't have Egoic dissolution until your physical death.  Any schlub that's walking around has an Ego.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor Seen it twice. All good as far as I'm concerned

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

@Joseph Maynor Seen it twice. All good as far as I'm concerned

MANKIND IS THE BULLSHITTING ANIMAL.  Leo's right about that one.  In fact, I didn't really appreciate the wisdom of that video fully until very recently.  And that applies to people who chin-wag about Enlightenment all the time too.  I call these people Spiritual Egos.  Ironically, being is best seen when you close your mouth and stop distracting yourself with philosophy.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor dont be so quick to believe in your own paradigms, be open to the possibility, these traditions that have been practicing enlightenment for thousands of years arent just talking out of their ass, i thought so too, but at my point in the path i see more and more the value of their teachings and the nuances of the path. for you to be truly nondual then all fear mechanisms by definition should be out the door, and an ego is the bundle of all fear mechanisms. if the buddha says that non egoic living is possible and other traditions than i think u should be open to that possibility instead of sticking to your conceptions and just call out other perspectives bullshit.

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor and sure mankind is the bullshitting animal, but how do you know youre not bullshitting yourself? how do you know for sure what i am saying has not truth to it? you don't, so dont bs yourself. we cant have a constructive discussion without you being open.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, corndjorn said:

@Joseph Maynor and sure mankind is the bullshitting animal, but how do you know youre not bullshitting yourself? how do you know for sure what i am saying has not truth to it? you don't, so dont bs yourself. we cant have a constructive discussion without you being open.

My Ego has already been through the conceptual stage of the Path.  Been there done that.  

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor Lol, sure mate. i feel like youre not acknoledging that enlightenment isnt over for you yet, you just awkaened, which many did in this forum including me since 4 years. the process happens regardless if youre awakened or not, maybe youll reach full dissolution or maybe not, regardless, its still happening. nonduality isnt truly nondual until all fear mechanisms are gone and the delusional veils of the subconcious mind are gone. you can still abide in awareness and see this process, no need to avoid it. avoiding what u fear is.. delusional and unenlightened by definition. and that is my whole point, awakening is not the end, a human has memory of many fear mechanisms that are slowly getting proccessed and let go of after awakening.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[DnoReally]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

My Ego has already been through the conceptual stage of the Path.  Been there done that.  

@Joseph Maynor Oh boy, I'm waiting for Leo to close this thread for devilry.

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, DnoReally said:

@Joseph Maynor Oh boy, I'm waiting for Leo to close this thread for devilry.

Oh thanks.  You called me a devil.  You're a trailblazer on the Path I see.  You guys are not far along on the Path, you're in the first part of the Path.  You're ideologues, philosophers, hiding away in theory thinking you're gonna find the solution to all your Ego's problems in Enlightenment Work gone conceptual.  Who's fooling who you sneaky Egos haha!  You can keep your "devil" label.  Go give it to a religious person, they'll sympathize with you more than I will.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[corndjorn]

@Joseph Maynor many people awakened to awareness, its not really something new in this forum. if you think thats that for enlightenment work then you havent spent much time in your nondual state, life will trigger your attachments and youll see what i mean by this process of letting go either way. your system has a memory of fear mechanisms, regardless if you awakened or not, it takes time for it to fully dissolve, even after awakening.

Edited February 3, 2019 by corndjorn

[DnoReally]

@Joseph Maynor You sound very defensive there. I never claimed to be particularly far along on the path.

Btw what do you mean idealogue/philosopher?