The Case for Eating Meat

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, TheAvatarState said:

I do not fear impending death. I am identified with the chicken.

If you understand that you are the chicken, and you dont have a negative attitude towards death, then what is the issue?

[Matt8800]

1 minute ago, Bluebird said:

Many different angles: Health, environmental, sustainability, ethics, futurism, etc.

Take your pick, of course ultimately the ethical argument can be deconstructed, as can all the points to some degree. The only perspective that really matters is your own. Particularly from the health perspective, so eat a lot of meat, then go vegan for a few months, then eat meat again, see if there is any difference (but be highly conscious of the body during the eating and digesting phase).

Eating meat may be a non-issue. Do you really want to find out in your own experience?  

Yes, I tried going without meat and I felt extremely unhealthy. A lot of other people have felt the same. The Dalai Lama eats meat for health reasons.

[Solace]

What you focus on becomes your experience. You can focus on meat for all your life. That is perfect. You can eat it. That is perfect. You can rally against it, that is perfect. Everything you do is perfect. There is no right action to take because any action can be justified or unjustified. And no action can take you further or closer to higher consciousness. 

There is a reason for and against everything.

Transcend the duality, and finally you can look at life with your most authentic core values from a much higher perspective! The challenge is we are looking at meat from a place of low consciousness. Go to the higher place within you through meditation or mantras or OMing or breathing and all will be clear. Your minds energy will be focused onto a single point. You will no longer be in your thoughts that will change their opinions all throughout your life, ao you can finally hear that quiet voice of your heart. 

This is issue is the result of a limited perspective. It has nothing to do with meat. It’s all to do with the place you are living from, the duality of the mind. The clear conscience of your heart is there once you stop needing to have all the answers, and give up the idea that one perspective is the objective Truth. I know it’s hard to trust your intuition and quiet your thoughts, regarding them as sounds just like the birds you hear, but this is the only way to answer every question you have with the clarity of higher conscious living rather by transcending thought, and remaining in silence, aware of the consciousness around you. 

Complete peace arises. You are whole and complete. It’s your life, it’s your freewill and creative freedom to raise your consciousness, it’s up to you guys to wake up.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Solace

[Matt8800]

17 minutes ago, Solace said:

What you focus on becomes your experience. You can focus on meat for all your life. That is perfect. You can eat it. That is perfect. You can rally against it, that is perfect. Everything you do is perfect. There is no right action to take because any action can be justified or unjustified. And no action can take you further or closer to higher consciousness. 

There is a reason for and against everything.

Transcend the duality, and finally you can look at life with your most authentic core values from a much higher perspective! The challenge is we are looking at meat from a place of low consciousness. Go to the higher place within you through meditation or mantras or OMing or breathing and all will be clear. Your minds energy will be focused onto a single point. You will no longer be in your thoughts that will change their opinions all throughout your life, ao you can finally hear that quiet voice of your heart. 

This is issue is the result of a limited perspective. It has nothing to do with meat. It’s all to do with the place you are living from, the duality of the mind. The clear conscience of your heart is there once you stop needing to have all the answers, and give up the idea that one perspective is the objective Truth. I know it’s hard to trust your intuition and quiet your thoughts, regarding them as sounds just like the birds you hear, but this is the only way to answer every question you have with the clarity of higher conscious living rather by transcending thought, and remaining in silence, aware of the consciousness around you. 

Complete peace arises. You are whole and complete. It’s your life, it’s your freewill and creative freedom to raise your consciousness, it’s up to you guys to wake up.

I agree...there is no duality. It doesnt matter what one eats. Thats my point so it sounds like we agree

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

Many enlightened teachers admit to eating meat and that seems to shock some. Here are a few points that may illustrate why meat eating may be a non-issue:

1. Many consider taking an animals life the same as causing it suffering but that is not always the case. If the death to an animal is painless and sudden, how did it suffer? Conscious experience is all that matters.

2. People project their dualistic and delusional identification with their own body to animals. The consciousness of any animal is sacred (although ultimately, there is only one consciousness). Meat of any animal, including human, is just matter.

3. People talk of major life changes as the result of what they learned in Near Death Experiences. I have yet to hear of a meat-eating person experience a NDE and come back to try to tell everyone to abandon their meat-eating ways.

If I eat a chicken that was grown humanely and killed instantly, where is the suffering? "Who" suffered? Where is the "evil"?

This is why the mind is a beautiful servant yet a terrible master.

You can justify any form of devilry with a little mental gymnastics. It can create all sorts of castles in the sky to live in and cling to. And those who decide to live in a castle in the sky of their own making, totally forget that there is no ground below them. To truly make wise decisions, you must build your castle on the solid foundation of the heart.

Right now, you are bringing the analytical mind into matters of the heart, to avoid what the heart has to say. 

The open heart will tell you clearly what is wiser if you dare to listen. 

[Solace]

@Emerald Yeah, there is so many examples of this for us to learn from! A criminal feels justified in what he does, but most of society believes from a different perspective, a different group of thoughts, that an injustice has been committed. Yet injustice is another idea in the mind, and it changes all throughout history. Today gay people are accepted so much more than in the crusades. This is perfect, everyone is allowed to have their own perspective and beliefs. But these beliefs are based upon the personal ego structure which has gained most of its knowledge and deeepest beliefs from the parents. We can rather get our knowledge from the clarity of the heart. In the mind and outside of us we only find knowledge based upon separation. We need to seek deeper inside to find knowledge based upon love and understanding, Truth and wisdom. It is already inside of us. 

The heart is already singing softly. The mind just sings louder. Once the volume is turned down, we move closer to our inner knowing, the timeless wisdom of the universe that we are right now, the highest perspective we have access to, to see our life from and all moral questions.

[Emerald]

39 minutes ago, Solace said:

@Emerald The heart is already singing softly. The mind just sings louder. Once the volume is turned down, we move closer to our inner knowing, the timeless wisdom of the universe that we are right now, the highest perspective we have access to, to see our life from and all moral questions.

I was considering saying something very similar to this.

Spot on!

[Solace]

@Emerald Its been a good discussion  

I also wanted to say that the first step is not judging yourself based upon what you eat. Strong negative emotions are easy to take action upon, and often we use food to change the brain chemistry. It’s alright to do this. We are where we are, and we cant align ourselves with our highest values and inner knowing all in one day. So step one is acceptance, and this happens by not judging yourself. You are perfect. You are accepted by all of creation. 

Expanding upon this topic it all comes down to a value judgement. Either we judge meat as good or bad. And we have reccommended that you transcend this mentality entirely, as well as all thought as a source of guidance and trust more in your heart. But when we let go of judgement, for me for example, it felt like I was letting myself go! When I didn’t judge my emotions I was giving myself permission to feel anger if it arised instead of repressing it. And I said to myself, “Oh no! I’m going to go around and be mean to everyone, and stomp my feet all over the place”. I said this because I had trusted in my analytical mind from a very young age, and now I was letting it go so I could trust in (live from and focus my awareness upon) my heart. But the actual experience I had was that anger started to heal inside of my energy field, I felt lighter every time I let it express itself, and all negative emotions followed in angers footsteps. I finally allowed these emotions to have a voice and be released. The same happened with diet. By letting go of judgement I was giving myself the freedom to eat anything, such as meat or chocolate (or so I thought). I believed I would binge without constantly monitoring myself through judgement. The actual experience was that I started not being able to eat chocolate because I became conscious of how my body withdraws from this food, and that I felt tired after eating it. The Veggie salad then appealed to me, and last week my mouth watered for a salad for a first after a year of accepting myself just as I am, and letting myself be free to eat all kinds of foods (a freedom that I felt but didn’t necessarily express by binging that much like I thought). When you connect to the heart, after a while a Unconditonal love will arise, and stay with you in whatever you do. And soon you will catch onto it’s song, and become more and more aligned with its beat.

So, it is an act of trust when we transcend duality embodied as our analytical mind, but I want to let people know, when you let yourself be free from value judgement, you won’t go out of control! You will actually be in harmony with your authentic self and feel free from limiting beliefs  because you are living from a reality that has transcended the belief structure and thus, you now have creative mastery over your mind, body and emotions as you continue to align more and more with the hearts song. Anyway this was probably going off topic but I was inspired to write it here by the other forum members who have really good points about transcending the mind/duality, and aligning with love and authenticity etc to find your own truth about these subjects which everyone has a different answer for within themselves.

Namaste.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Solace

[Girzo]

13 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

3. People talk of major life changes as the result of what they learned in Near Death Experiences. I have yet to hear of a meat-eating person experience a NDE and come back to try to tell everyone to abandon their meat-eating ways.

So here you hear about such a person. It's indeed a case that people become vegetarian after NDE or mystical experience. It's also not like it's rare.

About the rest of the points. Sir, you are a devil.

[RareGodzilla]

I think that if you like being vegan you should be vegan and if you want to eat meat you should eat meat. Anyone trying to force their ideology upon you is full of shit. 

[alankrillin]

We already had a meat thread why the new one? 

Eat whatever you want, you dont need to make a "case" for it. It is lawful to eat it so no case needed. 

Enjoy it while it last though because as humans and cultures develope to heavy stage green or yellow it will become illegal to eat meat. (probably not in our life time). 

The mind can warp and justify any case, people in a cannibalistic tribe feel justified in eating humans. But the rest of the world has grown in wisdom that killing each other for food just isn't good enough. 

As far I read about the Dalai Lama he eats meat when he's offered by his hosts whilst traveling.  This means not only was the animal already killed but he's probably not contributing to thr meat industry by spending his money towards it. On top of the fact that he probably doesn't eat too much meat.

I think most gurus do similar things, when Im in social circles I don't force people to cook vegan food just because of me, neither do I go on staying hungry. 

So you eat meat but keep these things in mind:

1) the mass produced meat farm industry is disgusting, if you spend 24 hours working there I doubt you want to eat it.  You wouldn't want to eat chickens that died through sheer exhaustion in cages, you wouldn't want that to go inside your body. Also the lack of sunlight, cheap grains fed and antibiotics used, you really wouldn't want that in your system. 

2) meat farm industry is causing damage to the environment and global warming. 

3) meat has been proven to the same level of smoking to cause cancer. But the risk of smoking is higher. 

4) I've seen a lot science research saying that the optimal meat we should eat varies from 0g to 70g a day.  I have not seen any study that says we should be eating lots of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt8800]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

This is why the mind is a beautiful servant yet a terrible master.

You can justify any form of devilry with a little mental gymnastics. It can create all sorts of castles in the sky to live in and cling to. And those who decide to live in a castle in the sky of their own making, totally forget that there is no ground below them. To truly make wise decisions, you must build your castle on the solid foundation of the heart.

Right now, you are bringing the analytical mind into matters of the heart, to avoid what the heart has to say. 

The open heart will tell you clearly what is wiser if you dare to listen. 

Enlightened guru, Nisargadatta, along with many other enlightened masters, would have to agree to disagree with you  

https://happy.guide/2013/03/17/does-eckhart-tolle-eat-meat/

http://www.wearesentience.com/nisargadatta-on-eating-meat.html

 

[Shadowraix]

@Matt8800 I wouldn't rely on other devils if you haven't confirmed it for yourself. Being proclaimed an enlightened master doesn't mean you got it all figured out. 

[Matt8800]

4 hours ago, alankrillin said:

We already had a meat thread why the new one? 

Eat whatever you want, you dont need to make a "case" for it. It is lawful to eat it so no case needed. 

Enjoy it while it last though because as humans and cultures develope to heavy stage green or yellow it will become illegal to eat meat. (probably not in our life time). 

The mind can warp and justify any case, people in a cannibalistic tribe feel justified in eating humans. But the rest of the world has grown in wisdom that killing each other for food just isn't good enough. 

As far I read about the Dalai Lama he eats meat when he's offered by his hosts whilst traveling.  This means not only was the animal already killed but he's probably not contributing to thr meat industry by spending his money towards it. On top of the fact that he probably doesn't eat too much meat.

I think most gurus do similar things, when Im in social circles I don't force people to cook vegan food just because of me, neither do I go on staying hungry. 

So you eat meat but keep these things in mind:

1) the mass produced meat farm industry is disgusting, if you spend 24 hours working there I doubt you want to eat it.  You wouldn't want to eat chickens that died through sheer exhaustion in cages, you wouldn't want that to go inside your body. Also the lack of sunlight, cheap grains fed and antibiotics used, you really wouldn't want that in your system. 

2) meat farm industry is causing damage to the environment and global warming. 

3) meat has been proven to the same level of smoking to cause cancer. But the risk of smoking is higher. 

4) I've seen a lot science research saying that the optimal meat we should eat varies from 0g to 70g a day.  I have not seen any study that says we should be eating lots of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Eat meat if you want. Dont if you dont want but there seems to be some dogmatism among vegetarians. This was basically a post to say there is no need for the dogmatism. 

1. Yes, the meat farm industry can be disgusting in the way they treat animals which is why I think meat should be sourced from smaller farms with humane methods.

2. Human diet is causing climate change due to overpopulation. Overpopulation is the root, indirect cause. Nobody cares what Chimpanzees eat because there isnt enough of them to make a difference. Climate change is a massive problem but if meat could be produces with nil effects on climate, I doubt it would make a difference to most vegetarians. 

3. Unless you can provide a link to a scientific study that shows that is true for white meat, I claim that statement is false.

4. Different people require different amounts of meat. People should do what is most healthy for themselves.

Regarding justification, do you think Nisgardatta or Eckhart Tolle try to manufacture justification for their actions? If you think that, I doubt you are very familiar with them.

[Matt8800]

7 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

@Matt8800 I wouldn't rely on other devils if you haven't confirmed it for yourself. Being proclaimed an enlightened master doesn't mean you got it all figured out. 

It seems you start with the assumption that your view is correct and Nisgardatta and Eckhart Tolle's view is "wrong". That is merely a subjective opinion.

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Matt8800 said:

It seems you start with the assumption that your view is correct and Nisgardatta and Eckhart Tolle's view is "wrong". That is merely a subjective opinion.

Not at all. I am not concluding that any view is correct or wrong. I am saying you can't just hold the words of others as true until you have confirmed it for yourself. Not even what Leo says. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Matt8800 said:

Enlightened guru, Nisargadatta, along with many other enlightened masters, would have to agree to disagree with you  

https://happy.guide/2013/03/17/does-eckhart-tolle-eat-meat/

http://www.wearesentience.com/nisargadatta-on-eating-meat.html

 

So, you're believing in what Nisargadatta says just because he's an enlightened master? Why does he know better than you what's right for you?

[Cudin]

We cook our foods, and that's not the way nature intended us to behave.

Do you feel hungry when you look at a breathing cow?

Do you feel hungry when you look at fresh strawberries?

It's just a matter of cultural programming. We barely have the necessary hardware to consume other animals meat. We don't have claws, our teeth are not designed for meat.

We are pretty much chimps wearing suits. Chimps don't eat barbecue.

(this is not a debate, I will not reply, just consider what I am saying)

[Shadowraix]

@Cudin Not the way nature intended for us to be? If anything I'd say we can't ever be what nature didn't intend us to be. Everything we do is in our nature and exactly as was intended. 

[Cudin]

What is the freaking difference between eating a person and a cow? The butchered meat look pretty much the same. Our physiological complexities are also very similar.

Is cannibalism ok?

Why is it ok to eat some animal and not others?

Would you have a raw meat diet?