Emerald

Great video on climate change!

114 posts in this topic

I had to share this, because I think it's really illuminating, creative, and just downright amusing.

And from a Spiral Dynamics perspective shows why it's so important for humanity to make the collective jump from Orange to Green at the present time to avoid planetary destruction. 

 


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But climate change is a Chinese hoax ;)


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But climate change is a Chinese hoax ;)

EXACTLY! 

That's what the video's about! Duh!


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Naranja is primarily about protecting the self, and the rich peoples are the one that are propagating much of the disinformation and ultimately much of the damage. They're also the ones that will be able to best deal with cataclysimic climate change. The vast majority of businesses (and all fossil fuel companies) do not feel that they will be hurt too badly by climate change, otherwise why pollute. Someone else will pick up the tab.

13 minutes ago, Winter said:

Whatever the dream of an orange can be, most of the time it's building something in the real world or leaving some kind of mark in humanity.

Corporatism / orange in the United States is not concerned with leaving some kind of good mark on humanity. It is about advancing the welfare of people within the United States. And it is the United States that's holding up the planet the most.

Most people in the U.S. think of the areas outside of the U.S. as barely different from extra-galactic planets, with extra-terrestrials that we simply have to deal with.  There is no connection to them and no desire for synergy. All of this is because of nationalism.

Accordingly anything that happens thousands of miles away has about as much weight as something happening thousands of light years away.

Because we are better, or something =P

Edited by Talinn

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18 minutes ago, Winter said:

I disagree. I'm fully orange and it's in my personnal interest to protect the planet and encourage others to do so. Whatever the dream of an orange can be, most of the time it's building something in the real world or leaving some kind of mark in humanity. It doesn't make sense to do so if humanity is threatened. Climate change can be fully defended with purely rational thinking, there's no need for post-rational thinking to solve climate change.

It might even be easier to convince them that they already want to save the planet (whatever their goals are) than to convince them to change their ideals and raise in the spiral dynamics. 

I'm not talking Orange in terms of individual people. Certainly there can be people in Orange that can get behind Green level green initiatives on a purely rational basis. And I don't think of post-rational thinking at the level of Green, but moreso at Yellow.

But I'm talking about Orange and Green relative to the system at large which is made up of more than just individuals. And from this stand-point, there can be a mix of different levels on the spiral within a general Orange society on the level of individuals.

But when it comes to which ideas and people are in power, in an Orange society, the people who are in power have a strong vested interest in maintaining the Orange status quo, and resisting Green changes.  This is all due to their investment in their individual Capitalistic success and valuing that over the interests of the planet and humanity on the collective level that Green values. 

So, there can be individual Orange people who are willing to accept the existence of climate change, since it is a scientific reality. And Orange is really the birthplace of science. But the difference is that the Orange person will likely value individualism over collective concerns. And if these collective concerns come into collision with their ideas about the free market or their success in the free market, then they will default to concerns about the economy over concerns of ecology.

And if that doesn't describe you, I'd say that you're Green in that facet of life. 

But the key here is to look at the issue in terms of the entire societal set-point as opposed to on the level of the individuals that make up that society. I tend to think that Spiral Dynamics is best used as a tool for social engineering, as opposed to personal diagnoses. 

Edited by Emerald

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Just now, Winter said:

For me it's not a top priority in life, but whenever I get the choice (like doing compost or not compost) or I can vote, I'll try to make a decision that will improve the environment. I would not put environment in front of my goals, but I would put them anytime in front of my feelings. 

Haha! That's what I was just mentioning in my previous post. And I don't think you've read it yet.


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7 minutes ago, Winter said:

Also USA is part of the world they are degrading. As any king wouldn't destroy his own kingdom, any decent orange wouldn't destroy the realm in which he want to raise into.

Regardless, they comprise the vast majority of naranja people.

Remember also that Orange is the season of the busy bee. They're gonna be so focused on chasing material things, scientific theories, and work/money that even if they think it's rational to help the planet they will be too exhausted to do anything in that direction. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Environmentalism is a collective endeavor and these other things are individualistic. You can only apply your energy in so many places.

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Oranges can be vegans no problemo.

They can't apply energy in a systemic, holistic, and thorough way to address a problem as massive as climate change in the same way that a yellow or teal can. The yellow or teal will be much more effective.

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32 minutes ago, Winter said:

What I'm more or less trying to say here is that changing our habits and doing good for the environment do not need to be at the expense of any other goal one may have. I don't have to focus on climate change everyday, I just have to implement the good habits and keep them. All the "orange" corporate "reasons" against climate changes are just pure bullshit. For the big majority of oranges, it's in their interest to be helping the environment.

What I believe anti environment people are doing is staying in their confort zone instead of doing what's rationnal. That's in my book, being anti-orange.

On the level of individuals, it's normally Blue people who fall for the anti-environmental rhetoric as they tend to mistrust science to begin with as science comes into conflict with their symbolism-laden worldviews.

A lot of individual Orange people will realize that climate change is real and that science backs it up. But individual Orange people don't really calculate into this Orange dominance that happens. And the individual efforts of people to do things that help, like composting and driving electric cars have some impact. But the lion's share of our climate issue comes at the hands of big corporations. So, there's relatively little that can be done on the individual level to truly combat climate change. So, the Orange view of personal responsibility relative to the issue of climate change is good but falls short.

But the problem is not usually with individual Orange people. It is the Orange people in power that are the ones that have their interests vested in being anti-environment. So, either through ego-distorted wishful thinking or direct deceitful intent, they rail against the climate change scientists and accuse them of creating hoaxes. And they play off climate change as though it's not real, because the admission of climate change being real would come into conflict with the Orange system that they've come to power in and is a direct threat to that power. 

And they put out rhetoric that is eaten up by the Blue masses as well as any other people they can convince of their climate change claims. 

There is an episode of Rick and Morty, where Morty's dad Jerry (who's unintelligent and unremarkable in a lot of ways), is trying to help Morty with a science project where Morty has to make a model of the solar system. And Jerry is very insistent that Pluto is a planet.

And as the episode goes on, they end up going to Pluto. And Jerry ends up getting a lot of positive attention by telling the Blue masses that Pluto is still a planet. And the Blue Plutonians are happy because it reinforces the symbolic importance they put upon Pluto being a planet. 

And the leader of the Plutonians is really excited to have this "super intelligent" Earth man there telling the people that Pluto will rise again in status.

And then the leader of the Plutionians reveals in a Freudian slip that he's well aware that Pluto isn't a planet. And that the reason why it's not is because of some environmental reason, and Pluto is shrinking... meaning the eventual destruction of the Plutonians. 

But unlike his Blue people the Orange leader of the Plutonians knows that the environmental issues faced on Pluto are a real thing. It's just that he gets a lot of cuts from the big businesses and big money interests on Pluto. So, he is willing to sell out his people and his planet, to line his pocket. So, he's using the naive Jerry to shill for him.

Then, Jerry finally realizes that he messed up.

And this a perfect example of how Orange leaders know how to maintain the Orange system and the source of their power by manipulating those lower on the spiral.

Edited by Emerald

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The system may be clever but it will probably have gaps in it due to the fact that it is a band-aid on humanity's distorted perception of the universe. Then the system will fade and we will still experience other orange problems.

It's sorta like when you hack off the top of a weed and don't pull out the roots. You can make the exterior look pretty but the weed will grow back.

I think you need to add one more descriptive adjective to orange. It is certaintly not rational to eat donuts and McDonald's, but plenty of Oranges do it.

Let's put it this way, even if science solved climate change, an orange society is not worth living in. (Well it is but you get my point).

And it makes sense to be clever and kill two birds with one stone. Or three, or thirty.
 

Edited by Talinn

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6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Weaving Spiral Dynamics with Rick and Morty? @Emerald is becoming a Spiral Wizard ?‍♂️ 

Haha! :D To be fair though, Rick and Morty has a lot of great themes to dig into. I've only seen a handful of episodes though. But it's a really smart show.


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1 minute ago, Winter said:

"an orange society is not worth living in" that's what you are in hahaha

I don't believe the majority of people will turn yellow or teal within my lifetime. No one can really predict in fact. We need to act now with what we currently have.

The society will need to go full green first; with green ideologies as the norm. And instead we see so any anti-green speakers popping up. I don't know how we are going to transition into Yellow. (I love to live and see what a Yellow society looks like)

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Just now, Winter said:

I really don't buy into the idea of blaming the people in power, since power dynamics work because people follow it. Did you see rules for rulers by CPG grey? That's exactly what I'm trying to express. Rulers have power because we are giving it to them.

Your story with plutonians work because the plutonians want to buy in the pluto-not-shrinking story. But they don't do that because they are orange, they do that because they are unaware and asleep. Orange leaders that use their influence to achieve their individual goals are indeed problematic but you don't need move out of orange and get rid of your individual goals to become aware of what's going on.

No matter how much orange leaders are to blame in this, the solution lies into developping more awareness in people. But that doesn't imply getting rid of my selfish goal, does it?

The idea that you don't buy blaming people in power, prevents you from seeing that people in power are objectively responsible.  It is this idea that prevents you from seeing clearly what the core issue is and means that you're likely to unconsciously go with he flow and support them and the system that keeps them sustained.

But that's not as to say that individuals can't influence things. The power that those people derive from the Orange system are there because most people are Blue and Orange and don't directly do anything to undermine that power structure and unconsciously support it. So, Orange people may compost and do things like that.

But they are very unlikely to do anything that is a genuine threat to the powers that be. So, they are unikely protest and boycott the 100 corporations that are responsible for 71% fo carbon emissions in the world. 

But there you can have individual goals at any stage. There is no need to remain fixed in Orange to have a personal goal. You can create a business and make it Green. So, I don't really see the problem here... unless you want to be an oil sheik or something.

But the thing that really separates and Orange person from a Green person is if they value economic and meritocratic things over the collective health of humanity and the planet at large. 


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@Emerald I like Rick and Morty. The Interdimensional Cable episode put me into uncontrollable laughter.

If you take requests and happen to like Monty Python, I’d love to see it woven with Spiral Dynamics sometime. ☺️

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2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Emerald I like Rick and Morty. The Interdimensional Cable episode put me into uncontrollable laughter.

If you take requests. . . I’d love to see Spiral Dynamics woven with Monty Python sometime. ☺️

Spoofing on earlier Blue societies though and Orange modern lens???? 9_9


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Just now, Emerald said:

Spoofing on earlier Blue societies though and Orange modern lens???? 9_9

Well said. That is what a lot of it boiled down to. 

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3 minutes ago, Winter said:

I'm orange because I'm not looking for truth, I'm looking to achieve my goal (no matter what, even if it means reaching truth along the way). I've been officially labelled "orange" by Leo 

and considered myself orange ever since. I don't really like spiral dynamics, I wouldn't use them if that forum didn't care that much about them. I don't see green/yellow/turquoise people are above me. Pure orange is the highest one can be ;)

I don't go with the flow and follow dumb leaders. Protests for environments are great and if they do not cost me too much (in term of time), I'd consider participating. But I wouldn't allow several hours per week to that as it would be a distraction from achieving my dream. I see a protest more like a strategical move though, not a way to express myself. There would be no need for protesting if our democracies weren't that flawed.

What is your "selfish goal" that you want to achieve?


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I'm so happy that everybody is in such a light mood.  It's refreshing to me.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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