Emerald

Great video on climate change!

129 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

In a sense, a system is always an invisible hand thing. So, you could say that no one is actually responsible for a system running the way that it does. So, I get what you're saying. But we also have to understand that the people in power are at the top of the chain of command in determining where that system will go. And that people will mostly follow suit with the status quo set up by people in power. So, they have the lion's share of the power in determining how the system will go. So, they are very much part of the root of the problem.

The system determines where the system goes. That's what makes systems so complex they cause and perpetuate their own behaviors. Goals of the system can of course set and be influenced by people  but the very reason those people are in power in the first place is that they strive for the goals that are in line with the system.

 

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

For example, I'm a substitute teacher. And I can tell you, that 95% of classroom issues come about because the teacher has classroom management issues. So, while the students are responsible for their own behaviors, the teacher is always responsible for the behavioral set-point in the classroom.

And it's important to know when you're in that position that students are generally the way that they are. Students will be students. And people will be people. 

So, 10% of the students in the classroom will misbehave no matter what, 10% of the students in the classroom will behave no matter what, and 80% will be taken by the wave of whichever trend is happening in the classroom. So, if students are misbehaving in the classroom, the consequences will come to the student for the behavior issue. But the teacher is responsible as the leader and the one who is managing and setting the behavioral set-point of the class. And if there is an unruly class, 95% of the time, it's because the teacher frequently failed to meet the classroom management challenges head on with a sense of efficacy.

That's a completely different system though. Can you find examples where there is one leverage point that is actually one person? Of course but in real life complex systems that is almost never the case.

 

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

And it's important for individual people to be conscious of this, because then we can cease to be complicit within the system. And we can leverage our power as consumers and as members of society to make it clear that we will not subsidize the power of those industry leaders if they continue to allow for negative outcomes.

The exact opposite is the case because people identify leaders or groups of people as the cause is what maintains the system. There are objective things that bother most people but because they blame different people they see themselves as opponents and become a split society. Realizing that trump is no more at fault than any other politician before him opens the door for people to unite on issues that 60-90% of the population agrees with and there are surprisingly many issues like that in America right now.

 

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, identifying the people in power as the ones responsible will help people realize that they have very real and tangible power themselves, as those leaders derive their power from the people and their attention, approval, and money. And if we cut off that supply, then they have to either change or resign their power.

http://www.allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html I feel like just like the frog you don't see that a scorpion is a scorpion and can't be anything else.

The second leaders stop acting the way they are expected to by other people in power they instantly lose the power they have. The only power they have is the power to advance the goals of the system.

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Ok I hate to be the pessimistic collapsitarian alarmist in this thread but we are headed for some very troubling times. Many of us will be witnesses to some of the most traumatic and distressing events to ever unfold in human history. Part of me thinks undergoing the severe implications of abrupt climate change is a necessary step in the evolution of the human psyche. What do you guys think?

Will the implications of climate change force us to move up the spiral as a collective? Or will we regress back to purple and beige like our cave dwelling ancestors?

 

Edited by abundance

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@Emerald IMO educating ourselves is probably the start. Having a solid foundation of climate science and actively spreading and embodying that message by sharing it through art, comedy, books. Another angle would be to make a shift from people based to policy based. Instead of talking and focusing on people we should focus on specific policies that address the situation we are in. I hope I'm getting across what I mean because I can see how making the distinction "policies" and "people" can seem arbitrary and nitpicky...but it makes total sense in my head I swear xD 

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42 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@Emerald IMO educating ourselves is probably the start. Having a solid foundation of climate science and actively spreading and embodying that message by sharing it through art, comedy, books. Another angle would be to make a shift from people based to policy based. Instead of talking and focusing on people we should focus on specific policies that address the situation we are in. I hope I'm getting across what I mean because I can see how making the distinction "policies" and "people" can seem arbitrary and nitpicky...but it makes total sense in my head I swear xD 

I agree on the focus toward these things. That's the way that the people in power come to change the way that they run their businesses. The people need to change first for the people in power to have to adapt to them. Because the people in power derive their power from the people who are willing to support them. And this is true for business owners and policy makers alike. 

But I ultimately think that we're just talking about different angles of the same issue. 


Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/thediamondnet 

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Remember that people below stage Green don't have much concern for environmental issues because their mind is preoccupied with more selfish things.

So the root solution to climate change is to raise more people to Green cognitive development. Then, from that, the rest of the external solutions will follow.

A Green populace will vote for green politicians and green energy.

Climate change is really a problem of excessive Orange. As we can clearly see with Trump, who is in such denial about it.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Emerald Yes I realized that from your last post but it was good for me to actually flesh it out and try to articulate my stance. Thanks :D

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On 12/4/2018 at 1:34 AM, Leo Gura said:

Remember that people below stage Green don't have much concern for environmental issues because their mind is preoccupied with more selfish things.

So the root solution to climate change is to raise more people to Green cognitive development. Then, from that, the rest of the external solutions will follow.

A Green populace will vote for green politicians and green energy.

Climate change is really a problem of excessive Orange. As we can clearly see with Trump, who is in such denial about it.

But the thing is that this human made effect maybe even has positive effect for us, not negative, if we are near cold cyclical phase, then having carbon dioxide in atmosphere will make this cycle less cold, which is good for us. 

Edited by purerogue

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@purerogue And maybe if you were slapped upside the head it might be good for you.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@purerogue And maybe if you were slapped upside the head it might be good for you.

:D Maybe , who knows, anyway it is not as huge problem, have some trust in future. 

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@purerogue Millions of people will die, but okay.

How do you know it, do you have understanding of how cyclical changes happen and how this will have effect on them, millions more might die if we deal with this "problem".

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18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@purerogue Read the scientist and government reports.

I have read both sides, it is up to you to decide which one is closer to your beliefs, I might be wrong, but then again I follow what makes more sense to me from my knowledge, have you checked counter arguments, or just one side? 

Edited by purerogue

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2 hours ago, purerogue said:

But the thing is that this human made effect maybe even has positive effect for us, not negative, if we are near cold cyclical phase, then having carbon dioxide in atmosphere will make this cycle less cold, which is good for us. 

 

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

I have read both sides, it is up to you to decide which one is closer to your beliefs, I might be wrong, but then again I follow what makes more sense to me from my knowledge, have you checked counter arguments, or just one side? 

You have absolutely zero understanding of what you're trying to talk about and haven't looked into both sides seriously at all. These cycles take hundreds of thousands of years to phase into naturally and it's happening in a matter of decades.

Edited by p1xelmonk

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1 hour ago, purerogue said:

I have read both sides

There are no sides. There are scientific projections which predict 1-10 ft of sea level rise which will leave millions homeless, or there is propaganda paid for by corporations with vested interest in denying such studies.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are no sides. There are scientific projections which predict 1-10 ft of sea level rise which will leave millions homeless, or there is propaganda paid for by corporations with vested interest in denying such studies.

Who do you think owns news outlets?Anyway I do not want to argue about this , I can do nothing about it and most governments already are on fearmongering of masses, so you still get regulations. 

Edited by purerogue

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7 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Who do you think owns news outlets?Anyway I do not want to argue about this , I can't do nothing about it and most governments already are on fearmongering of masses, so you still get regulations. 

On 12/2/2018 at 8:02 AM, Outer said:

Stop Flying
Eat Plant-based diet
Drive electric or hybrid or take public transportation
Use LED lights
Buy electricity from renewable sources
Recycle
Vote for people that take climate change seriously, don't vote for people who take bribes
Tell others after you've improved yourself

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