Hospital (Trip) Report - Irresponsible yet profound

[ivankiss]

I am both surprised and glad that I triggered so much fear by sharing my experience. That does not mean I promote spreading fear. I do, however, promote becoming aware of fearful thoughts, emotions, opinions etc. I am well aware of the fact, that a lot of us, especially those who are younger and confused, may misinterpret my point. I am also aware that many do not have the "attention span" required to read through the entirety of my report carefully. And that's quite alright. I am also very glad to see that a lot of you recognized the message in my story. Thank you. So let me emphasize the following: I do not suggest to anyone to follow my steps and act the way I did. But I also do not suggest that anyone should freak-out about anything here. Everything is necessary. My "bad trip" was necessary for me and my evolution. It's that simple. There's nothing more to it. There's no need to hold yourself a hostage and judge things that scare or trigger you. What you fear and resist may manifest itself sooner than you think. I hope my report exposed that fact clearly. So again: DO NOT trip as I tripped that night. May my story be a reminder to you. There is no need to fear you will somehow be "distracted" or pulled down of your path. Life is not a math class. You cannot fail. Embrace the fun and randomness. But do so carefully and consciously. TRIP RESPONSIBLY. 

[EvilAngel]

@ivankiss Your trip report reminds me of similar experiences that I have had. We all have our own way of reaching enlightenment...seems like yours was a lot scarier than it maybe needed to be. But I'm so glad that it all turned out OK in the end. Peace.

[VioletFlame]

@ivankiss Not sure if you read my experience on the previous page, but I definitely support your notion that "everything is necessary" and even "bad trips" can be very life-changing and worthwhile. It is simply an experience to reflect upon and learn from which will help you evolve over time. 

[ivankiss]

5 hours ago, VioletFlame said:

@ivankiss Not sure if you read my experience on the previous page, but I definitely support your notion that "everything is necessary" and even "bad trips" can be very life-changing and worthwhile. It is simply an experience to reflect upon and learn from which will help you evolve over time. 

Hi there. I read your story twice, thank you for sharing. I want to applaud your level of courage, steadiness and also your depth of compassion, connection and understanding. Doing what you did for your friend(?) was nice and very supportive. Also thank you for all the "hints" and suggestions on how to be responsible with psychedelics. I sense you are well-experienced and know your "craft". The peace and bliss during your trip(s) are obvious confirmations. Enjoy the journey. Much respect. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by ivankiss

[ivankiss]

19 hours ago, Baotrader said:

@ivankiss too long and lacking specific. @Leo Gura don't make it sound like you lack the maturity in what you are doing. I am sure every famous person contributes to the destruction of at least a few people's life. 

@Baotrader Correct me if I'm wrong. You assume that somehow Leo contributed to the "destruction of my life"? Why? How does a teacher contribute to the destruction of other people's lives? I'd say that is impossible. The teacher can only destruct his own life. A student can only destruct his own life. I did not choose to do so. My life is just fine. Better than ever, to be frank. And that is my choice. Leo had little to nothing to do with this. My actions were not influenced by him or his teachings in any way. A teacher is a channel. A messenger. Just as we all are. There is no teaching without learning and no learning without teaching. The two are not separate from each other. You cannot contribute to destruction. You can only self-destruct.  

Edited November 22, 2018 by ivankiss

[VioletFlame]

This whole accusation that well known people are responsible for the negative consequences/outcomes of a tragic event among someone is so common and over-rated, it has been happening far too long. People seem to forget about freewill and free choice and how when you make a decision to do something, you're consciously making that decision, so therefore no one else is responsible for your actions except yourself.

Have you ever heard of the Ozzy Osbourne story where these two teenage boys dropped acid and listened to the song "Suicide Solution" and it allegedly motivated them to take their own lives during their trip? Ironically, the song was written about the dangers of drugs & alcohol. But of course the media blamed the creators of the song saying, "The song caused this tragic incident." What they didn't put into consideration was the initial mindsets of these kids. That they were simply juvenile, uneducated and vulnerable to the drug, not anywhere near ready to explore it. For example, if they were anywhere remotely ready, they would have at least had the knowledge & awareness to ask themselves if it would have been the proper song to hear during their experience. I mean just by the title alone, it seems rather misleading, and one should be able to draw that conclusion. Like if I was them perhaps I'd have chosen "Mr. Crowley" over "Suicide Solution", if any. It wasn't the song's fault, it was poor choice in music at the wrong time.

But they simply didn't realize that this drug can create direct parallel channels & links to circumstances in which one may or may not take into literal account. In which something can feel highly relative to someone and be considered an all encompassing "solution" or "answer" to them in that moment. I wouldn't blame them though because they simply didn't know any better, neither do I blame the song or the psychedelic but only the entirety of circumstances behind the story. This is one reason, however, why I wouldn't normally recommend music to starter trippers. Because I understand the deep emotional & psychological affects music can have on the brain when you're sober, let alone tripping balls.

I mean look at how much denigration and demonetization there was towards Rock n' Roll when it first started to blossom and reach its revolutionary summit because of course, most of its origins were heavily influenced and derived from The Occult so it must've been "evil" and "dangerous" and called "Devil's music." It's purely a lack of reading.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by VioletFlame

[Kaity]

@ivankiss  I was reading your story before going to bed last night and all I was wondering was how great of a description you gave of your experience. I saw the both sides : "I was being stupid" and also "I learned something valuable."  Honestly I was so impressed by this read that I'm kinda shocked after reading people's replies. I really don't get what the fuzz is about and wouldn't certainly expect such a closed-minded and immature approach from this community. (They're usually pretty open-minded and supportive) So I really can't see what's the problem here. It's not like you took mdma+mushrooms+alcohol because you heard leo talk about psychedelics  Or it's not like anybody who's gonna read this will think : "Oh let me mix these substances and trip at a hospital too." At the end of the day, you learned the same lessons as anybody else does while tripping, just in a slightly more difficult way  

Thanks for sharing such a thorough report which was very consuming and entertaining to read. 

[Leo Gura]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:17 PM, Baotrader said:

 @Leo Gura don't make it sound like you lack the maturity in what you are doing.

No, I was lamenting the lack of maturity in the user.

My talks on psychedelics are actually reserved.

The issue is that no amount of disclaimers can stop ignorance from unfolding. Igorance is very creative and intelligent. If there's a way to fuck something up, ignorance will find it.

It just never ceases to amaze me.

[Baotrader]

@Leo Gura is it better to use armodafilnil and not eat anything before you feel the effects kicking in? I theorize that if we eat before our body consumes it we might lose it by shitting, especially foods that can cause auto immune reaction

[ivankiss]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, I was lamenting the lack of maturity in the user.

My talks on psychedelics are actually reserved.

The issue is that no amount of disclaimers can stop ignorance from unfolding. Igorance is very creative and intelligent. If there's a way to fuck something up, ignorance will find it.

God is ignorant. And judgment also always finds a way to express itself, as ignorance does. You cannot "fuck up". Why all the division? How does this not contradict directly the law of oneness?

[Leo Gura]

@ivankiss Absolutely one cannot fuck up. Relatively one can.

Since most people will judge us relatively, it's best not to give psychedelics a bad name. Otherwise it hurts the cause of making psychedelics more widely accepted. By using psychedelics sloppily, you ruin a good thing for other folks.

[ivankiss]

@Leo Gura I can agree on that. But again, I think I emphasized the fact, that this is a perfect display of how not to use psychedelics.

[Seed]

I think @Leo Gura just feels the pressure more than anyone else, as he has recommend them to hundreds of thousands of people (and some of those who could be very young / mentally unstable) So, when one of those people uses them irresponsibly. Naturally, he feels the burden of responsibility of ensuring people are using them safely and not damaging themselves or others. As well as giving them a bad rep. 

I think that is why he is particularly sensitive to these kind of trip reports. Had he not had any involvement in their reputation and exposure, as well as a huge following. He probably would not care so much. 

Those are just my thoughts anyway.

I do however think you should share, to ensure people know the beast they are messing with.

Psychedelics are NOT toys and here's what happens when you assume they are...............

[ivankiss]

@Seed This may or may not be true from his point of view. Whatever the "case" might be, it is of course completely understandable and acceptable. Leo is a well-appreciated teacher. And that comes with great "responsibility". I love him and his ways of teach/learning - learn/teaching. I do not mean to disrespect him or this forum in any way. I was simply sharing my experience with the intention of spreading awareness from a slightly different angle. I want to repeat, that I was not influenced by him or his work in any shape or form. What I did, I'd do regardless. Besides which I barely saw a handful of his videos prior to "the incident". Which were not directly pointing to psychedelics or enlightenment. 

[luckieluuke]

On top of my mind, the one thing I got from your story @ivankiss is the importance of respecting psychedelics.
I agree with @Kaity I don´t know why your story stirred up so much negative emotions. It simply is, and you portrayed it just perfectly like that.
Hey Ivan, do you have your music available? on spotify or something? would love to hear some

[ivankiss]

@luckieluuke You got it right.

I indeed do have some music online, glad you're interested in hearing it. Sending it your way via p.m.  

[thehero]

Its cuz hes working so hard to demystify psychedelics 

[Lynnel]

On 21/11/2018 at 9:24 PM, ivankiss said:

One of my roommates, who liked going out frequently, showed up at the apartment with a baggie of mushrooms and some MDMA. The other roommate and I were already smoking some weed and drinking some alcohol.

Anyone reading this.

Do not fucking mix any single substance such as shrooms and MDMA and alcohol.

Stop smoking weed and being a pothead.

Never ever mix alcohol with any psychedelic. Do not ever mix any two psychedelics without prior massive experience.

It is a miracle that this guy is even alive right now and he could've easily have died. MDMA is extremely heavy on the brain and depletes serotonin and interations with alcohol/weed/shrooms are just...

On 22/11/2018 at 9:38 AM, ivankiss said:

@Leo Gura Your judgement and regret has it's place in oneness. Just as my irresponsible trip does. Saying that something that is should not be contradicts the absolute Truth, which is all-inclusive.

Yeah that's argumentative BS, relative truth is still a thing and people still need guidelines. People won't take those substances seriously enough while they can be extremely dangerous and it's quite regretable.

[ivankiss]

@Lynnel Thing is, I am actually dead. I did not survive that night; something else did.

And what's also bullshit is people being extremely narrow minded and scared of life itself. Relativity is a thing, yes. But if you are unable to extract meaning and value from other people's "misfortune", that is something to look into.

If judgdement and fear are the first things to rise up, that alone lets you know where you are standing.

Was I smart mixing these substances? No.

Was I into having the experience I had? No.

Was I ignorant? Yes.

Then again, I experienced something only a few dare to experience. I faced fear on a level others get uncomfortable to even think about, let alone experience it. 

Now if you think I did not take away anything from that, it is probably because of your own stupidity and ignorance.

The only mistake I made, when I chose to share my story here, was that I assumed the members of this comunity are more open minded, transparent and accepting. I had only good intentions. I wanted to spread light onto something everyone seems to be so afraid of.

I do not promote teenage stupidity.

I create understanding for myself and those who have the capacity to understand.

Edited December 25, 2018 by ivankiss

[purerogue]

Are you sure you made any mistake? 

Anyway , interesting read, it give me some interesting information to look more into.