Failed at Stage Orange - how do I go back?

[Wisebaxter]

I could never settle into stage Orange as I was too much of a goddam hippy rebel and kept smoking too much weed and not giving a shit about conforming or listening to authority. So I kept getting sacked from jobs all the time or just quitting. I've always disliked Orange as my family are Orange and they're a bunch of shallow ass-clowns. I feel like I'm balls-deep in Yellow with my tip in Turquoise at the moment as I'm reading lots, seeing the bigger picture, unravelling my ego, meditating every day and spending all my time self-actualising. However my finances just aren't there. I claim benefits and live with my girlfriend, who works while I do the house work haha. I can still afford to eat, I have a gym membership and not working does give me plenty of time to self-actualize and work on my life purpose (music production) but the spectre of Orange still haunts me. Do I really need to dive into that shit and learn how to make some money? My music isn't making me money yet as I'm not advanced enough at it. 

As for Green, I did do a care job for a couple of years and looked after mentally ill people and I've always cared about others, but my social skills suck ass. I have no friends, no social life and so my ability to feel love for others and experience an emotional range through having deep relationships just isn't there. 

I feel happy where I am and making great progress with meditation and not giving a shit about success or having lots of money (although I'm not completely detached from that need yet) so do I really need to go and do orange? Like, don my suit and go and work in an office with a bunch of apes? Maybe it would be good for me as I could nail some green too whilst I'm there (be an agony aunt for the apes) and also afford some nootropics and psychedelics. Taking psychedelics could help me shed any remaining fixations I have with money and help be figure out what's going wrong with my social skills...

What are your thoughts? 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wisebaxter

[Pharion]

I can tell your not into stage orange by your depiction of it. I love many aspects of stage orange and i detest the fake, suit wearing work environment company BS, I would never willingly do that. Watch Leos video about it, and if you want to really understand it look at some "stage orange" people, I'd recommenced Stephan Molyeneux as he not only does a great job of explaining and embodying the stage orange mentality (hes a libertarian, and has many videos talking about world issues from a "stage orange" kind of perspective) but also he has a talk show with ppl where he acts as kind of a therapist and talks to them about thier lives to bassicly help them self actualize (although not in those words) which is more of a stage green thing focused on empathizing and helping people out. So yeah check him out, watch some more content about it. If you want to to apply it more directly in your personal life then try to focus on learning the business aspects of your life purpose, and try to really get serious about optimizing your strategy for marketing, creating an image, and bringing ur career to that next level. So if you want integrate stage orange, do that stuff, good luck to you. 

[Forestluv]

There are several paths through Orange. I disliked materialism as I passed through Orange. I was hooked on other Orange aspects: logic, reason, science, theories, debates.

[electroBeam]

@Wisebaxter the world doesn't revolve around spiral dynamics. 

Its a model, a fantastical depiction of a few swirls in the ocean of sociology which a few guys jumped on and made a language game about. And now we got hippies like you trying to see the whole personal development game through this language game. 

Just by reading your post I can't convey how wrong the spiral dynamics model is for solving your problem.

This issue isn't that you're yellow or turquoise or coral or that you need to embody orange hahahaha. The problem is that you don't have money and this is causing you suffering. End of story. 

You may not like the scientific method because its too 'orange' for you, but if the scientific method got 1 thing right, its that beautiful idea of solving a problem through making it simpler. Chuck out all that spiral dynamics garbage and focus on the problem: you don't have enough money. 

You can easily solve that in many ways, but for you that means (again something simple) providing value in the most authentic, honest and deep way.

What skills do you have? Painting, music, programming? What did you do all your life?

And even if you have no practical skills, one thing that shines through in this post in your love spiral dynamics and wisdom. Use your life experience of being a hippy to give value to people: make books, blogs, opinion articles, how tos on spirituality, yoga classes, etc heck I don't know what's best for you, but i know it exists. Go find it!

[Wisebaxter]

@electroBeam Great advice bro, thank you. I am getting a bit too obsessed with spiral dynamics. 

Basically I spent my life learning how to play the guitar, sing, write songs, program music and do personal development. I have my life purpose down, which I'm working on daily, but missed out on the stage Orange skills of being able to turn a skillset into a way to make money. That's why I was thinking of going back and integrating somehow. 

I do have enough money, as this is how much I should have at this moment in time, for the path I'm on. The universe is seeing to that. But this intelligent mind is also drawn towards making more money as it obviously needs it for something. I'm just letting it do it's thing while my ego sits in the passenger seat. 

I see the main message of your post as, 'employ some strategic thinking to figure out how to use your existing skills to add value.' Yes..thank you universe. Thank you for speaking through the illusory identity known as electroBeam, and thank you ElectroBeam. 

@Serotoninluv Hmm, I've never looked at it like that. Maybe it's just the materialism of Orange that I rejected then and I did take some stuff from it, like Reason, logic etc. For some reason I've become overly focused on seeing it as a shallow, money hungry stage only 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wisebaxter

[Nahm]

@Wisebaxter What do you want most?

[Wisebaxter]

@Nahm To self-actualise. To live without fear. To master all areas of my life, Health, Life-Purpose, Money, Spirituality (enlightenment) and relationships. At the moment there are still areas where I have fears and unhealthy beliefs, namely money and relationships. I feel like I can't make money and at present I'm not financially dependent, I rely on the taxpayers money to survive and I can't buy what I need (new clothes) or what I want (psychedelics, solo retreats, travel). It gets me down a bit as although I'm on this amazing journey of spirituality and truth seeking I feel life is also about having fun experiences and adventures, seeing exotic places and engaging the senses. I'm also scared to have relationships with people as the responsibility feels like too much and I don't find socialising particularly enjoyable (maybe because I need some yellow/turquoise friends). So basically Nahm I just want to be a well rounded individual who can use forms with no hang ups and operate efficiently within the dream, to experience the dream fully as well as the infinite. That and a haircut wouldn't go amiss  

Having written all of that I think I can see the problem. It's all me me me isn't it. All about self gratification. I didn't write 'to help others, to love everything as much as I can, to lift others up through the spiral and make the world a better place.' I think perhaps I should focus some visualisations on becoming more self sacrificing, this is the only way to receive true abundance in all areas anyway. Let's add something else to the list then....to be a conduit for pure, unadulterated, divine love. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wisebaxter

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

 

@Serotoninluv For some reason I've become overly focused on seeing it as a shallow, money hungry stage only 

Orange can also be expressed as a shallow intellect stage as well - e.g. Richard Dawkins.

[Wisebaxter]

@Serotoninluv I see, so what do we take from Orange that's positive? Critical or strategic thinking perhaps? 

[Nahm]

@Wisebaxter Play the inner game; phrase both verbally and cognitively in and only in accordance with what you want, and you will be it. Ex: I want health, I will make healthy choices vs I don’t want to feel like crap, or “it’s hard to make healthy choices but I have to”. Bring this peace & simplicity to your mind. 

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

To self-actualise. To live without fear. To master all areas of my life, Health, Life-Purpose, Money, Spirituality (enlightenment) and relationships.

That’s fantastic. How does it feel to you if you replace “To live without fear”, with “To live in love with my life, every moment”?

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

At the moment there are still areas where I have fears and unhealthy beliefs, namely money and relationships

I’m talking about going sooo micro, that you could take a minute now to look around the room and point to that. You say “there are still ares where I have fears and unhealthy beliefs, namely money and relationships” I understand that, and it is great self discovery, and great awareness of where you’re at - “what is”...but go another layer into it. Look around and point to that “truth” about you - see that it is, in fact, not true at all. It’s just a thought, a repeated one, and if you down go down a floor, one more layer below, it is all too easy to miss that the repetition of such a thing keeps it “true” for you - when in fact self actualized is deconstruction, and the it ends in a literal Nothing. So not a rod one can say about one’s self, is actually true. Paradoxically, the finale outcome of the deconstruction, is the revelation of what Nothing in actuality, is - everything. 

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I feel like I can't make money and at present I'm not financially dependent, I rely on the taxpayers money to survive and I can't buy what I need (new clothes) or what I want (psychedelics, solo retreats, travel).

This method, if you will, is nit picky at first glance, but are you seeing what I’m saying? You “feel like you can’t make money”, because you’ve been repeating such thoughts. Is it true? No. It’s a perspective you learned from someone as an example, or as a defense from being around someone who was stressed about making money. In understanding that - then look at this “I rely on the taxpayers money to survive etc....”    That is what I’m trying to communicate; First the perspective, then the repeated thought, then it is your circumstance. You can call it magic, you can call it law of attraction, you can call it any words you prefer - but the truth is, play that inner game, win the inner game, to paradoxically discover, there never was an ‘inner’ & ‘outer’ world. Unify them, and enjoy the harmonic mind. 

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I feel life is also about having fun experiences and adventures, seeing exotic places and engaging the senses

Yes! Your vision and wisdom of seeing that experience is what matters, - outstanding. To get there, redefine ‘what is’. You are not stuck, there is no lack. This, where you are now, is the foundation for that. It is nothing more than where you’re starting from. You need not repeat a thing, not even a thought of the past. The inner game is staying with, and only with, that vision, that future. The past has nothing for you, it is spent. Let it go. 

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I'm also scared to have relationships with people as the responsibility feels like too much and I don't find socialising particularly enjoyable (maybe because I need some yellow/turquoise friends).

(I’m digging down deep on ya and I hope you’re ok w it / I hope it’s helpful)      Reverse that thought:      Because I don’t think I’m enough, because I think to proceed I need more “yellow/turquoise friends”, I am unable to proceed. Maybe say out loud to the wall, “I don’t know what I am!”, “So I’m done saying I’m this or that!”. “I don’t know”, if you can let go and be there, is a very good place to be. 

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I just want to be a well rounded individual who can use forms with no hang ups and operate efficiently within the dream, to experience the dream fully as well as the infinite.

Flip that around too: “Because I am infinite, because I don’t know what I am,  I am free of thinking I am an individual, I am free of forms, I am freedom, I am the dream - this life is the dream!”

2 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

to help others, to love everything as much as I can, to lift others up through the spiral and make the world a better place.' I think perhaps I should focus some visualisations on becoming more self sacrificing, this is the only way to receive true abundance in all areas anyway. Let's add something else to the list then....to be a conduit for pure, unadulterated, divine love.

Maybe you are already seeing this part here differently...? Keep all the focus on you winning the inner game - win the self, and then you have self to give, then you are positioned to win the ‘outer’ game. You can do those things today. Say it out loud - “I’m done with the past, it’s gone, I have everything I need to love myself right now, and anyone and everyone I cross paths with too.”

What you make your highest prioriy, manifests. That is the only possibility. The only question is has life stirred you up enough yet? Seen, thought, and felt enough of what you don’t want yet? Done yet? Breathe easy knowing it’s happening either way - if you’ve not had enough yet, garunteed life will kick you in the ass until you do. Had enough already? Make it priority one. Be so done that the minute you wake up you do whatever you have to do - repeat a mantra, meditate, read or listen to something positive / motivational, exercise, pray, fast, self affirmations, yoga, whatever it is you need to do - you actually already know. The only question is - 

Do it?

or 

Don’t.

 

[Wisebaxter]

@Nahm Dude that was amazing, you're a legend. So what you're saying is I need to just see these beliefs for what they they are, just repeated thoughts...strip all that away and get in touch with the fact that I already am everything I need to be. You're words are very relevant to me at the moment as this last couple of months I've been going through a process of stepping aside so let the universe guide me. Watching Leo's video on 'having no free will' really helped something to click for me and ever since then I've been seeing signs everywhere I look, that the real goal is to stop resisting, to realise my true nature as perfection and to just bask in gratitude and love. Your post is another addition to this collection of messages from the divine. 

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

“feel like you can’t make money”, because you’ve been repeating such thoughts. Is it true? No. It’s a perspective you learned from someone as an example, or as a defense from being around someone who was stressed about making money.

Hell yes, my dad was always obsessing about money, telling me how hard it is to make and communicating that our bank balance defines our worth. He stressed me out about it so much that I went into lockdown. But enough of the victim mentality. That was in the past. 

“I’m done with the past, it’s gone, I have everything I need to love myself right now, and anyone and everyone I cross paths with too.” Yeah that felt good to say. That's a powerful mantra right there. 

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

How does it feel to you if you replace “To live without fear”, with “To live in love with my life, every moment”?

Ah I see what you're getting at - focus on the positive version of what I said. Love is the opposite of fear, so if I focus on that it's better than focusing on 'being without fear.' That's still a fear based approach.

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

Seen, thought, and felt enough of what you don’t want yet?

YES! I don't want to resist what is, I don't want to always be stuck in the perception that there's something lacking, something that I need to add to myself, when I'm perfect already. I want to stop controlling and fighting life. I want to take action in the moment, with effortless effort, whether its making music, strategising for the future, whatever. 

With your post you nicely summed up where I've arrived at recently in my life (uncanny) and given me a jolt to make me realise that by making statements such as 'I can't do this, I can't do that,' or 'I need this,' I'm living within my old illusory identity and not as my true self, which is divine perfection. I'm going to manifest what the universe wants me to manifest and follow the path I'm on, reading through Leo's booklist, meditating, visualisation, all the stuff you mentioned, each morning

Thanks for your help brother  

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Wisebaxter

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Serotoninluv I see, so what do we take from Orange that's positive? Critical or strategic thinking perhaps? 

To see the value of Orange, let's back up the truck and look where Orange evolved from. . . 

Stage Blue has "either / or" thinking. "Good / Bad" thinking. They don't see shades of grey. A Blue person sees each person as "Good" or "Bad". An Orange person can see that people are not all "Good" or all "Bad". A person could have some Good traits and some bad traits. A person could be mostly Good, yet have some Bad habits they need to do some self improvement on. I would say that is an upgrade.

A Blue person typically imagines a god in the sky that is the authority on morality. For example, whatever the Bible says is moral authority. If you disobey the Bible or don't believe in the Bible, you are a sinner and you might go to hell. A healthy Orange person thinks "Hey, wait a minute. Not all of the stuff in the Bible makes sense. It was written by Bronze age men thousands of years ago. They didn't know much then. Maybe they did their best to record the message of Jesus, but misinterpreted a few things. And maybe over the years, a few things got misinterpreted. Maybe the Bible contains some good lessons and some bad lessons. If that is true, maybe the Koran also has some good lessons and bad lessons. Maybe Buddhism has some good lessons.". I would say that is an upgrade.

Blue believes that the purpose of life is to sacrifice one's life to god, so that they can go to heaven and avoid going to hell. As well, they often believe that if other people don't follow their god, then they will go to hell. An Orange person is like "Wait a minute, how can we be sure there is a heaven and hell? Is there any evidence that a heaven or hell exists? Maybe it's better to to live this life I have to my best ability. Maybe I should do a personal improvement workshop so I can develop skills to be successful". I would say that is an upgrade.

Each stage has a series of upgrades. It's like upgrading software from 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 etc.

[Nahm]

43 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

So what you're saying is I need to just see these beliefs for what they they ar

Yes. They are not the Self. No need to identify, that’s what get’s Em in there so deep, and in part causes the repetition, which reinforces the believing.

45 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

stop resisting, to realise my true nature as perfection

Well that’s just music to my ears right there. ??

46 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Your post is another addition to this collection of messages from the divine. 

Yes - all is well (God), ALL is “the divine”....emphasis on relativity to you, “Nahm”, communicatively is ‘appearance’, in actuality, but in silence / w/o appearance,... you.  Or very loosely said - this communication is 50% Wisebaxter, 50% Nahm. Without your ear & openmindedness, you would not be experiencing this “from me”, nor I with “you”. 

Great self discovery regarding your dad. Might want to apply some therapy / practices / shadow work - might not need that at all. Your inner being lets you, and only you, know what is needed. For me, with my dad, it wasn’t money, it was anger = job/work. So I was a kick ass out-work-anyone-on-the-planet-worker for like a decade (afraid of becoming my dad/stressed/angry), and at the same time, if there was stress or a whiff of tension from work, I’d retract / introvert / recluse (inner child afraid). Took a while to figure that out and proccess it. Be patient with yourself if it takes you a while to. Great to be aware of this cycle of internalizing things from growing up! My kids are screwed. Lol. Jk. We’ll see. 

Awareness alone is curative, I believe that, I trust it.  Patience is most often needed too. A bit of a reprogramming will be taking place, like an unseen medicine, and takes time. A consideration of ‘mantra’, just 1 minute a day maybe, might be “money = fun, money - opportunities” etc. 

59 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Ah I see what you're getting at - focus on the positive version of what I said. Love is the opposite of fear, so if I focus on that it's better than focusing on 'being without fear.' That's still a fear based approach

Yes a million times over YES! ? No word is true, no thought is true. You are true, experience is true. So why talk & think in a manor which adds internal resistance? You get it. ? This takes time too, like stomach breathing, you might notice you ‘slipped’ a hundred times before it’s the default. 

Accept “What Is”, but don’t hang out there even for a minute. Acknowledging & accepting ‘What Is’ gets you “out of your head” & “out of your past / conditioned thinking” and back in now, then get right back to ‘Wanted’, positive perspective of self & future. In just days, a momentum builds, you’ll see but make sure you connect the dots. Sometimes it seems like you’re “just having good days” or “life is going well” - Make sure you realize it’s what you’re doing internally. That momentum needs to be noticed and realized, just in case, your “old thinking” socks you once or twice with resistance / ego backlash. I’d consider framing up that old thinking as an addiction, so when the backlash hits, you don’t revert back, and are not confused. Similar to someone kickin alchohol - they would have some clarity by just knowing it’s the withdrawal - nothing more. 

❤️

[aurum]

21 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

Do I really need to dive into that shit and learn how to make some money?

This statement right here is a sign of why you are broke.

Imagine if you took this same attitude with your health. “Do I really have to dive into going to the gym and eating healthy?” What would your health look like?

Same thing with relationships. “Do I really have to dive into getting a girlfriend and spending time with her?” How would your relationships look?

I think you get my point. Everything you want involves some sort of investment of your time and energy.

Money is no different. If you think it’s not important, surprise, surprise, you won’t have any.

From reading your post, I think you have some negative associations with money. Probably coming largely from your relationship with your family, since they have such a different attitude towards money.

[electroBeam]

@Wisebaxter in my experience, spiral dynamics is a useful tool for developing your intellect in ways which develop and sophisticate your perspective, correct judgment and understanding of social aspects of society, but its not a magic bullet for teaching you how to master a specialized skill such as turning value into money. 

I think I resonate with your approach. I'm very idealistic, and because of that when I get an idea which really fascinates me I want to solve every problem through that idea. For example, I read this really cool book on shamanism. I loved the techniques in it so much that I tried to use them to cure every problem I had, including my low self esteem. Its just not gonna work. Unfortunately tools are tools, and they are suitable for some jobs and not others. 

Learning about and trying to embody orange stage personality traits will develop your perspective and understanding of life, but it will not miraculously turn you into a money making machine. Simply having a more accurate perspective in life, and better judgment will not make you a master at mathematics art or any other specialised domain, so why would spiral dynamics help you master money making?

If you want to become a world class musician, the approach is to learn it and then practice. If you want to turn value into money, you got to learn it then practice. 

Also if you're having judgment problems, embodying orange isn't going to solve that. Like if you have an aunty you absolutely despise, seeing her more often isn't going to miraculously make you like her. I personally don't really know how to cure judgement problems apart from very intense awareness and focus on those judgments. If fact I would be inclined to say that if you have judgment issues its only going to be cured by mastering yellow. Judgments fall at the yellow stage, not orange. 

If you didn't understand something about orange (from a perspective/intellectual sense) then embodying it will allow you to understand it better, but its not going to cure your judgments, or turn you into a money making machine. 

[Michael569]

@Nahm you should start a youtube channel just talking about random stuff, I love reading your comments, its always so eyeopening and makes heck lot of a sense !

[Nahm]

@Michael569 Thanks. Same for you, really! I love reading your comments. You got a deep sense of sensibility that I away’s appreciate. I wonder if you take that for granted. ??

[Space]

@Wisebaxter Not sure what other people have written because its all TLDR. My only comment is that you say you're balls deep in Yellow, but you seem to be missing the whole point of Yellow which is integrating the best and most valuable parts of all the previous stages. You seem to be demonising Orange because it doesn't suit your more Green sense of identity (classic Green trap). If you're truly Yellow you should be looking at the best parts of Orange and then starting to integrate them into your life. Of course you want to discard all of the bad stuff from Orange. Through the integration you can then consciously transcend that stage and move on.

[Wisebaxter]

19 hours ago, aurum said:

Imagine if you took this same attitude with your health. “Do I really have to dive into going to the gym and eating healthy?” What would your health look like?

@aurum Very good point there. Leo mentioned recently that money is just one more area to master in life, but due to the hang ups that you mentioned I'm having trouble with it. A big part of it is I feel I'm going to have to spend time doing stuff I don't want to do to make progress, whereas I've gotten very used to have so much free time. This might not be true though, if I just hammer at the life purpose and monetise that - could take a while though. I have a book from Leo's book list that will help me to change the way I look at money, so that should help. You're so right, it's all about getting rid of these hang ups.

17 hours ago, electroBeam said:

if you have judgment issues its only going to be cured by mastering yellow. Judgments fall at the yellow stage, not orange. 

@electroBeam Yeah man, again this comes back to what Nahm said about inner game I think, learning to stop judging and letting my past define me. Interesting point that just learning some Orange skills alone won't solve the problem.  

@Nahm

19 hours ago, Nahm said:

Great self discovery regarding your dad. Might want to apply some therapy / practices / shadow work - might not need that at all. Your inner being lets you, and only you, know what is needed.

I'm reading a book on shadow work at the moment and doing the exercises, but a part of me still worries that I'm just digging these things up and cementing them in my mind by looking at them. Another part of me is inclined to follow your other advise and just focus on the future, but I'll see where this leads for now. 

19 hours ago, Nahm said:

I’d consider framing up that old thinking as an addiction, so when the backlash hits, you don’t revert back, and are not confused.

Oh yes, I've definitely become aware recently that I'm addicted to certain lines of thought, but meditation is helping me to detach from thoughts in general and I'm going to use your great advise and focus on more empowering 'facts,' such as embracing what I truly am now, instead of a story about myself based on lies.

 @Space Very good observation here, I'm certainly missing that integration of other stages from my Yellow-ness. Ok Maybe I'm not balls deep - half a shaft perhaps  I'm going to contemplate on your advice here because I think it's very astute. This was kind of my thinking when I created the thread, that I'd have to go back and integrate properly. I have some bigger picture thinking happening but I'm crap with money and to be honest even my Green is lacking...I'm quite emotionally immature and don't think enough about environmental issues. 

[Nahm]

@Wisebaxter Don’t believe, or listen to anything I say. I’m just maya. Trust yourself. I’m just one thing on a buffet, it’s your restaurant.