Some questions about the search for answers

[WindInTheLeaf]

Is truth beyond thoughts?

If truth is beyond thoughts, can it be described in words to someone having not realized truth?

If those realizing truth stops thinking and talking about it, does those still talking have a harder or easier time realizing truth? 

If someone reaches a conceptual understanding in which he is able to almost describe truth, will this theory become a great tool or a huge obstacle for realizing truth?

 

[Jack River]

You realize that you have already presupposed that answer by asking others that right? 

[Jack River]

It’s so subtle dude. 

[Nahm]

43 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Is truth beyond thoughts?    It’s the origin, well before the thoughts. 

 If truth is beyond thoughts, can it be described in words to someone having not realized truth?   Words can’t be used to describe Truth, but words can be used to directly help someone realize the truth. Within 3 hours ime. 

If those realizing truth stops thinking and talking about it, does those still talking have a harder or easier time realizing truth?  There’s nothing to say about the truth, wether it’s helpful to realization depends on the words, intentions, energy, willingness, open mindedness, not to mention everything going on in ones life, etc. 

If someone reaches a conceptual understanding in which he is able to almost describe truth, will this theory become a great tool or a huge obstacle for realizing truth?   Depends what they do next. It could be helpful if psychedelics are next, or a retreat, if let go, surrendered. 

 

 

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Nahm 

1. Thoughts arising as part of truth, making thoughts about truth the truth chasing its own tail by the illusion that it is apart from 'it'?

2. So you can help someone reach the end of thought by providing the right questions for him to ponder? Would this be possible aside from a one on one interaction, as in speaking to a wider audience?

3. If there is nothing to say about the truth, and anything we say is truth hiding itself from itself, then why speak in relation to the quest for truth?

4. If whatever they do next is anchored in these thoughts-of what they seek, would such a theory not create an even larger illusion for them to break through, as they now have an idea that is very hard to break?

[SoonHei]

55 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It’s so subtle dude. 

INDEEED x 1000000000000000000000000

 

it's an art!

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Jack River Hehe, attempting to point the finger at the finger is very hard indeed, perhaps impossible but i dont know and i will probably never know but i just cant let it go.

@Sven Thank you for putting much attention to these ramblings of mine when you realize the impossibility of the task, very much appreciated. Alan Watts is perhaps the most central figure who keeps me wondering if there is perhaps still a place for talking about what cannot be put into words. I agree on your final point, I too believe it would be an obstacle moreso than a tool, but perhaps i do not wholeheartedly agree as I'm here asking questions hehe. 

[Rilles]

ma dudes! 

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Rilles ma dude! would love to hear your thoughts on thoughts! but perhaps there are none? in that case keep on doing what you doing <3

[Nahm]

43 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@Nahm 

1. Thoughts arising as part of truth, making thoughts about truth the truth chasing its own tail by the illusion that it is apart from 'it'?  Ya  

2. So you can help someone reach the end of thought by providing the right questions for him to ponder? Ya

Would this be possible aside from a one on one interaction, as in speaking to a wider audience?     Anything’s possible but I don’t know how to do that yet. 

3. If there is nothing to say about the truth, and anything we say is truth hiding itself from itself, then why speak in relation to the quest for truth?  To know thy self, and to know what is illusion. Realization.  Liberation.  

4. If whatever they do next is anchored in these thoughts-of what they seek, would such a theory not create an even larger illusion for them to break through, as they now have an idea that is very hard to break? Not if they can be honest about what they believe, and what they’ve experienced  

 

[Rilles]

2 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Is truth beyond thoughts?

If truth is beyond thoughts, can it be described in words to someone having not realized truth?

If those realizing truth stops thinking and talking about it, does those still talking have a harder or easier time realizing truth? 

If someone reaches a conceptual understanding in which he is able to almost describe truth, will this theory become a great tool or a huge obstacle for realizing truth?

 

No , it cant be described obviously, you cant describe actuality actually

No , anyone can reach it

There is no obstacle, you need theory as a roadmap

Edited October 24, 2018 by Rilles

[WindInTheLeaf]

2 minutes ago, Rilles said:

There is no obstacle, you need theory as a roadmap

But if theory is a layer through which the road is seen and traveled, would the closest approximations of 'truth' not be the hardest to get beyond? Doesn't we tend to cling the hardest to that which helps us the most?

[SgtPepper]

2 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Is truth beyond thoughts?

If truth is beyond thoughts, can it be described in words to someone having not realized truth?

If those realizing truth stops thinking and talking about it, does those still talking have a harder or easier time realizing truth? 

If someone reaches a conceptual understanding in which he is able to almost describe truth, will this theory become a great tool or a huge obstacle for realizing truth?

 

1. Yes

2. Words are symbols so it can be described, but it's not the actual thing. 

3. Id say harder because no one is there is to tell them to look at the truth.

4. can be both. 

[non_nothing]

 

45 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

Click to see the >> TRUTH

 

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

But if theory is a layer through which the road is seen and traveled, would the closest approximations of 'truth' not be the hardest to get beyond? Doesn't we tend to cling the hardest to that which helps us the most?

Not necessarily, if youre told to look for yourself; is there a need to cling to that? just look.

[WindInTheLeaf]

8 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

1. Yes

2. Words are symbols so it can be described, but it's not the actual thing. 

3. Id say harder because no one is there is to tell them to look at the truth.

4. can be both. 

Like your answers short and concise, especially the maybe of the last one. From 1-3 i have this followup question or counterquestion:

If truth is beyond thoughts and words and thoughts sort of hang together, how can you point at the truth by words to someone clinging to some thoughts about it? Wouldn't anything you say be twisted into something else? So you may point one way but they hear/see you pointing another. Is it not better to be truth than spend energy trying to describe it? 

[WindInTheLeaf]

9 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Not necessarily, if youre told to look for yourself; is there a need to cling to that? just look.

Look for yourself? What do you mean? I know who I am! And who are you to try and tell me what to do!

[Rilles]

[Forestluv]

19 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Is truth beyond thoughts?

Consider that thoughts are within truth.

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Consider that thoughts are within truth.

@Serotoninluv I should perhaps have put it differently: is truth beyond thoughts-of-truth? Can truth be grasped by thought if thoughts arise as expressions of truth?