Mark Mansion criticizes Wilber, AQAL & spiral dynamics

[Eva]

Has anyone else listened to this one? What are your thoughts on this?

[Leo Gura]

It's a really good video. Good food for thought.

But also I think he just expected too much of Ken Wilber. Wilber's theories are obviously not going to solve of mankind's political problems. That was never going to be possible.

And Wilber's claims of intelligent design are correct, despite the denials from the scientific establishment. Evolution is intelligent. You can discover this for yourself at ridiculously high levels of consciousness.

Doesn't sound like Mark Manson has had direct nondual experiences. Or maybe just little glimpses.

And OF COURSE enlightenment != moral perfection or emotional mastery. We have talked about this issue to death. Enlightened people can become corrupt and make mistakes.

[Elisabeth]

I didn't like the voice, so I read the original blogpost. https://markmanson.net/ken-wilber I found it interesting. 

I'm also reading manson's book right now. I've been wondering if he's an example of yellow. His writing is centered around the power to choose one's own values, so that sounds kind of yellow-ish. 

[smd]

I was getting that vibe from them when I was checking out their institute's products and one of their online live speeches with Wilbur.  They spend a lot of time spamming you to buy their stuff too.  I'm in the Actualized camp though and there isn't enough time to work on both.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, smd said:

I was getting that vibe from them when I was checking out their institute's products and one of their online live speeches with Wilbur.  They spend a lot of time spamming you to buy their stuff too.  I'm in the Actualized camp though and there isn't enough time to work on both.

I think the problem is that Ken Wilber got caught up with the stage Orange internet marketers and sales gurus who dominate the self-help field. He hangs out with people in those circles. They helped him monetize his theories, courses, and material. Which is a bad idea because they are shameless salesmen, which cheapens Wilber's message.

The marketing and sales apparatus of the self-help industry is very sleazy and manipulative Orange. It's really out of integrity with the material being taught. They will take something like Spiral Dynamics and pitch it to you as a cure-all for solving all of your problems: from losing weight, to have more sex, to earning lots of money. Because otherwise no one will buy a course about Spiral Dynamics. It's too nerdy a topic.

Ken Wilber is not a mainstream guy. So trying to mainstream him ruins it.

The wisest teachers will never be mainstream.

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think the problem is that Ken Wilber got caught up with the stage Orange internet marketers and sales gurus who dominate the self-help field. He hangs out with people in those circles. They helped him monetize his theories, courses, and material. Which is a bad idea because they are shameless salesmen, which cheapen Wilber's message.

The marketing and sales apparatus of the self-help industry is very sleazy and manipulative Orange. It's really out of integrity with the material being taught. They will take something like Spiral Dynamics and pitch it to you as a cure-all for solving all of your problems: from losing weight, to have more sex, to earning lots of money. Because otherwise no one will buy a course about Spiral Dynamics. It's too nerdy a topic.

Nice insight.  Something seems off about Ken Wilber, although I do respect his work.  

Edited June 30, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Outer said:

@Leo Gura

I find it funny how you pitch your products at the last minute of hours long video content, as if the viewer retention is that long.

He doesn’t even really pitch them, he just mentions them.

[mostly harmless]

On 30.6.2018 at 1:36 AM, Leo Gura said:

Enlightened people can become corrupt and make mistakes.

Ajahn Brahm has talked about being asked by buddhists how they can take their teacher seriously if he is an idiot just like them. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=CAJCBAgBEgA%3D&search_query=ajahn+brahm

[MM1988]

@Outer

@Joseph Maynor

So true, I have so much respect for how actualized.org is run. You can really tell most of the Strage Orange bullshit is missing here.

Video topics are not selected by what generates the most views, videos are not jumpcutted to death to cater to the short attention span of mainstream audiences. The products are not shoved in your face all the time. Everything is really authentic and all the fake bullshit from most self help channels is missing completely.

@Leo Gura

I and I think a lot of other people appreciate greatly how things are done around here.

[Eva]

On 04/07/2018 at 5:59 PM, Etagnwo said:

@Eva It's just another opinion, isn't it?

What are your thoughts on it? 

Thank you for all of your thoughts, everybody!

@Etagnwo, I'm really into spiral dynamics, and I feel like AQAL is a nice supplement for it. I do understand that I'm a person who needs structure, logical solutions and perceives the world in a specific way. Wilber seems to be an intelligent person and I have respect for him for the work he has done. I feel like some of his stuff has gone too far and/or the wrong direction, so I tend to look into his ideas (and everyone's, for that matter) with a grain of salt. This video was a good reminder for me to remember not to idolize or blindly follow certain people, and to do the research for myself. And in the end, take those parts that make sense to me, appreciate the work they have done and be neutral with the rest.