Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

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Blue vs Green


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@Leo Gura

Can you explain how Zen monasticism is blue? I thought most of the western folks ending up there would have seen through materialism and be looking for something deeper in their lives. I guess I'm thinking of people that have become dissolutioned with their materialistic orange based societies and seeing that consumerism doesn't make them happy. Are they not training have love and acceptance of all, and being more tolerant of all others, and ultimately progress up the spiral??

 

 

 

 

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On 19/6/2018 at 2:44 AM, Leo Gura said:

I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Blue thinking

Stage Blue Examples:

[...] Marathon Monks of Mt Hiei [...]

Hey @Leo Gura, I have a question on this one. I see how the Marathon Monks of Mount Hiei can be very disciplined in a dogmatic fashion. They do things because the scriptures say so, and they'd rather die than disobey and break their honor, but, don't you think that by a total surrender of your life to something, as those Monks do, they maybe do get enlightened?

I know enlightenment isn't something directly implied by the spiral dynamics, but imagine they are deeply blue, and suddenly they realize the true nature of reality and that allows them to have a massive holistic view and understanding of everything, as the higher stages do. So maybe those monks are either very blue and become very turquoise from a moment to the next one...


"Es gibt die Wahrheit, mein Lieber! Aber die ,Lehre', die du begehrst [...], die gibt es nicht. Du sollst dich auch gar nicht nach einer vollkommenen Lehre sehnen, Freund, sondern nach Vervollkommnung deiner selbst."

- Herman Hesse, Das Glasperlenspiel

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1 hour ago, Freyah said:

@Leo Gura

Can you explain how Zen monasticism is blue? I thought most of the western folks ending up there would have seen through materialism and be looking for something deeper in their lives. I guess I'm thinking of people that have become dissolutioned with their materialistic orange based societies and seeing that consumerism doesn't make them happy. Are they not training have love and acceptance of all, and being more tolerant of all others, and ultimately progress up the spiral??

It tends to be very traditional and conservative.

Of course not always. But you have to see Zen as more than just enlightenment. Zen is an entire tradition, like Hinduism is.

Even though Zen and Hinduism can lead you to enlightenment, they are usually dogmatic and Blue in their value structure.

8 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

Hey @Leo Gura, I have a question on this one. I see how the Marathon Monks of Mount Hiei can be very disciplined in a dogmatic fashion. They do things because the scriptures say so, and they'd rather die than disobey and break their honor, but, don't you think that by a total surrender of your life to something, as those Monks do, they maybe do get enlightened?

I know enlightenment isn't something directly implied by the spiral dynamics, but imagine they are deeply blue, and suddenly they realize the true nature of reality and that allows them to have a massive holistic view and understanding of everything, as the higher stages do. So maybe those monks are either very blue and become very turquoise from a moment to the next one...

I don't doubt their enlightenment.

You can be enlightened but your value system can still be very traditional and conservative.

Enlightenment alone is not enough to take you to Turquoise. Enlightenment will not magically transform your value system to Yellow or Turquoise.

Spiral Dynamics is not directly tracking one's progress towards enlightenment. That is not what the model was designed for.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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@Leo Gura I wonder if higher stages are necessarily better.

I get a sense that higher stages are more "true", but at the same time, I get a sense that limited resources, effects of close people who are also in lower stages, less quality food and less developed neo frontal cortex all affect the stages.

Also, I get a sense that stages are cyclical.

"it is how it is" type of thing

Edited by fatsinglebrokeNOTego

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