Leo Gura

Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue Examples Mega-Thread

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So if blue is atheist it still can be blue? I'm not sure how religion influences the spiral, if any. 

Edited by StarStruck

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Russians have a strange definition of ‘black’. Some right wing vigilantes were looking for illegal immigrants, and they were cursing at them and calling them ‘black’ among other things. The only problem, that immigrant looked pretty white to me. See for yourself: Go to 2:20

 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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3 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Russians have a strange definition of ‘black’. Some right wing vigilantes were looking for illegal immigrants, and they were cursing at them and calling them ‘black’ among other things. The only problem, that immigrant looked pretty white to me. See for yourself: Go to 2:20

 

Great. Just what the world is missing, Russian Nazis.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Great. Just what the world is missing, Russian Nazis.

It's like if ebola and covid joined forces.

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20 hours ago, StarStruck said:

So if blue is atheist it still can be blue? I'm not sure how religion influences the spiral, if any. 

Atheism/agnosticism is at Orange. Fundamentalist Religion is a Blue value since it must adhere to dogmatic morals to be fundamentalism therefore its Blue.

The gist of it:

Purple: Animism

Red: Animism or Religion

Blue: Fundamentalist Religion

Orange: Atheism, Agnosticism or n/a

Green: Spirituality

Yellow: Spirituality or mellowed Atheism

Turquoise: Spirituality/Non-Duality

 

Something like that, you would have to go case by case.

Edited by Rilles

How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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@Rilles

My family is egocentric/impulsive/power hungry so (mostly) stage red but they are at the same time atheist which is stage orange you say. I really don't get this and I read the book. 

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2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@Rilles

My family is egocentric/impulsive/power hungry so (mostly) stage red but they are at the same time atheist which is stage orange you say. I really don't get this and I read the book. 

Probably centered in Orange, like I said, we would have to go case by case, I dont know your family. 


How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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16 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Probably centered in Orange, like I said, we would have to go case by case, I dont know your family. 

A lot of people tend to say they are religious but they don't act religious. I think my parents fall into that category. Such people are hard to categorize since they are somewhere in the middle of atheism and religion. They don't fit into the two boxes. And if you ask them they don't know it themselves. With my parents it depends on the situation if they would act like they are atheist or religious. By the way I never heard them say they are atheist but they never acted as a religious person neither.

Edited by StarStruck

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@StarStruck I think the mistake you're making is trying to pin them down to one stage with only a few behaviours. Spiral Dynamics has a lot of explanatory and predictive power, but it is just a model at the end of the day. People are far too complex for any one model to adequately explain all facets of behaviour, belief, etc.

When it comes to religious belief, I think the question is, upon which grounds do they rest their truth? A Stage Blue thinker will tend to rest their truth upon a monotheistic God or a "holy" book like the Communist Manifesto. This means that you can have a Stage Blue person who is an atheist, but still ground their truth on some absolute thing regardless of what the evidence might say. A radical communist will constantly refer back to the Communist Manifesto regardless of how many times that form of Communism has failed. 

A Stage Orange thinker on the other hand, will tend to ground their truth upon 3rd person inter-subjectively verifiable data, in other words, an objective, physical reality. The truth is not found in a single absolute source, but is instead found by going out into to the world and observing the truth for yourself, then confirming those observations based on peer review. 

Bringing that back to your parents, if they have a Stage Blue core they'll tend to make appeals to some sort of absolute truth, in lieu of any actual physical evidence. The key difference between Red and Blue is that Blue's source of truth will be outside themselves, whereas Red will be their own desires put above the desires of anyone else. Blue needs some sort of non-verifiable external justification for why they do what they do (i.e. God made me do it), whereas Red will do it just because they damn well wanted to. 

Edited by Elevated

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10 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Russians have a strange definition of ‘black’. Some right wing vigilantes were looking for illegal immigrants, and they were cursing at them and calling them ‘black’ among other things. The only problem, that immigrant looked pretty white to me. See for yourself: Go to 2:20

 

Russia is the last place I expect to have Nazis, due to world war 2 and all. More Russian people need to be educated on Spiral Dynamics, I wish Don Beck would leave the Middle East alone for a bit and start educating more Russians on SDi.

What Russia needs right now is an open and healthy BLUE to combat RED corruption and tyranny. It needs strict institutions to monitor corruption amongst Government, Police, and every other public institution. 

No, I am not advocating for an 'anti-corruption purge', those are always RED authoritarian's ways of booting their rivals masked in the veil of combatting corruption. What I'm advocating for is the expansion of Government with the creation of bureaus and institutions dedicated for monitoring and combatting/prosecuting corruption.


''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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14 hours ago, Elevated said:

This means that you can have a Stage Blue person who is an atheist, but still ground their truth on some absolute thing regardless of what the evidence might say. A radical communist will constantly refer back to the Communist Manifesto regardless of how many times that form of Communism has failed. 

A Stage Orange thinker on the other hand, will tend to ground their truth upon 3rd person inter-subjectively verifiable data, in other words, an objective, physical reality. The truth is not found in a single absolute source, but is instead found by going out into to the world and observing the truth for yourself, then confirming those observations based on peer review. 

I'm going to critique your use of the word "absolute". Both Blue and Orange share having a belief in transcendent/absolute principles:

For Blue, it's the sanctity of the divine (purpose that transcends the individual): truth is decided by a collective historical tradition. 

For Orange, it would be the sanctity of the individual itself: rationality and empiricism (truth is decided by the reasoning of individual minds); freedom and liberty (society is guided by the voices of individuals, on the merit of their reasoning/rhetoric, through democratic means).

In that sense, they're both absolutistic worldviews. On a system level, they're both rife with dogmatism and self-serving biases. Orange might claim it's being self-aware, but so might Blue to its own extent. Orange can get stuck on one model just as much as Blue. More systemically self-aware, perspectivally diverse and relativistic worldviews start arising at late-Green/early-Yellow.

Edited by Carl-Richard

To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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@Carl-Richard Yeah I can't argue with you there. I do think Orange is a little less absolutistic in the sense that they open the door to being wrong, or updating one's worldview. With sufficient evidence an Orange will do so, whereas a Blue would be much less likely to. Although, obviously, the holy books can be reinterpreted to fit the new narrative the Blue needs. So I guess the point is that at each stage there is a certain degree of absolutism, they aren't absolute in their absolutism lol

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2 minutes ago, Elevated said:

@Carl-Richard Yeah I can't argue with you there. I do think Orange is a little less absolutistic in the sense that they open the door to being wrong, or updating one's worldview. With sufficient evidence an Orange will do so, whereas a Blue would be much less likely to. Although, obviously, the holy books can be reinterpreted to fit the new narrative the Blue needs. So I guess the point is that at each stage there is a certain degree of absolutism, they aren't absolute in their absolutism lol

Each stage becomes less limited and more open as you go up the spiral.  A way of looking at it would be like a funnel. Life at Purple is extremely restrictive while Red is more open but still limited by its own destructiveness, Yellow and Turquoise is extremely wide but still limited of course. 

So, Blue is absolutistic and so is Orange but much less so. 


How strange it is to be anything at all

 

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They would have had an easier life if they returned to Europe after colonialism ended.

 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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The American Boy Scouts

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''To be happy we must not be too concerned with others''.

Albert Camus

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second video is stage blue having a crisis which causes them to think and transition to orange (or double down and get stuck)

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