Does meditation really work or is it just the Placebo effect?

[Milos Uzelac]

2 hours ago, blazed said:

Because they have actually done experiments.

 

Great quick stuff for swaying skeptic people and dispelling false rumours, thanks for sharing ! 

[Arkandeus]

I bear myself naked

it is a placebo 

oh what a wonderful placebo

it works! yes it works!!

for a man to nourish himself on beliefs, please God...

we have stripped our defenses

let the skeptics into the church!

for they are a divine creation, appreciate the skeptic

their words tell us something, they sing a song, like the wind

the bells are ringing

Edited May 12, 2018 by Arkandeus

[tsuki]

Placebo effect is when a mystical solution solves a physiological problem.
Your question suggests that you treat meditation as a physiological solution to a mystical problem.

If one solves the other, then what is the difference between those two domains?

 

You

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by tsuki

[Guest Quanty]

If you say that, you did not experienced your own body's DMT yet. 

[moon777light]

Does it matter?

 

[Faceless]

All such problems are psychological. There is no mystical problem. Only the psychological presents it as such. 

 

 

 

[BjarkeT]

@moon777light to me it does but what matters to you is up to you. knowing the truth about meditation gives a much clearer idea of what it is and if it turns out it's not the placebo effect at all it could be worth doing it but if it's just the placebo effect there may be some downsides to doing it like the effects fadying away and not being a real solution(it would be like getting those fake pills in the placebo effect study) and possibly meditation not being what people say it is(or just being a temporary solution) if this is the case it may be better to spend ones focus on something else that may have better benefits to you in my opinion.

[Faceless]

This is very important. People go there whole lives seeking security and in that live a life of perpetual insecurity. Getting caught in the never ending conflict of mechanical pattern. Constantly chasing pleasure not seeing that where one invites pleasure comes pain/suffering. 

I would say this is a great heads up?

 

[moon777light]

@BjarkeT I have yet to see someone who after years of meditation say the effects have lessened  

Watch all of leos meditation videos youll understand its the real deal. Some people define it as "placebo" since they dont understand whats going on, but in the future maybe decades we'll understand and then scientists will give the mechanism a certain name. Then they discover something else that effects the mind that doesnt work according to the mechanism theorem so they will label this new thing as "placebo" but then in another 10 years theyll discover how that works and so on and so on. Its waste of time trying to learn the science behind everything and explain the reasoning of why it occurs. You must try it to see if it works or not. Even if it doesn't (which is nearly impossible, it suggests your meditating the wrong way) , 20 minutes a day is only 1.4% of your day... you say its may be better to spend ones focus on something else, 20 minutes is gone in a second  

[SgtPepper]

It's not placebo... a regular meditation practice physical changes the brain structure and its connections. 

I don't even know how we are arguing this. Placebo can be succinctly defined "a beneficial effect, produced by a placebo drug or treatment, that cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient's belief in that treatment." - google.

Meditation is not about belief, there's no belief involved. Meditation forces you to have discipline, sit still, and quiet your mind. It's can be pretty much described as voluntary self-regulation. Performing actions such as these over and over causes physical changes in the brain, the same way that physical exercise will cause physical changes to the body and brain. It's way beyond belief and have you met any meditation masters? that level of attitude is not from placebo lol. 

I have feel that you must be very new to this practice or have little experience to think it is placebo when it clearly re-organizs your mind/brain each session. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by SgtPepper

[BjarkeT]

@SgtPepper someone have already posted that video and I responded to it

i have been aware of meditation for a long time i am just looking for a better understanding of what it is because at the moment it doesn't seem much different from the placebo effect 

Edited May 12, 2018 by BjarkeT

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, SgtPepper said:

It's not placebo... a regular meditation practice physical changes the brain structure and its connections. 

So does ending psychological time

Only ending the movement of time brings about a more holistic fundamental change to the brain. 

No matter the rationalization if one meditates to seek psychological security in any way that is evasion, escape, a movement of fear. A movement of psychological time. 

This is why that “do nothing” meditation which if done right is non-method is used. It is a form of attention in opposition to concentration.  

 

 

[SgtPepper]

17 hours ago, BjarkeT said:

@blazed but how do they know that isn't the placebo effect at play? How can you tell the difference?

"the scientific power of the placebo effect"

from reading on the placebo effect it seems like it could have the same effect meditation seem to have

does anyone know if there is any scientific research on this?

Then you did not watch it closely enough.

You asked for scientific research and that video has numerous sources (neuroscience) showing physical changes in the brain from 8 weeks of practice as well as improved length of telomeres. I don't see placebo doing any of that? 

It's not placebo because its not founded on belief or thinking. Meditation is literally an active process of self-regulation. 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/11/151110171600.htm

https://www.quora.com/Does-meditation-really-help-or-is-just-a-placebo

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by SgtPepper

[SgtPepper]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

So does ending psychological time

Only ending the movement of time brings about a more holistic fundamental change to the brain. 

No matter the rationalization if one meditates to seek psychological security in any way that is evasion, escape, a movement of fear. A movement of psychological time. 

This is why that “do nothing” meditation which if done right is non-method is used. It is a form of attention in opposition to concentration.  

 

 

Heck, I'd even say, you're not truly in a meditative state unless you get rid of psychological time. 

 

[BjarkeT]

@SgtPepper i am asking for scientific research related to studys done on if meditation is placebo or not if there is any real difference between the two. It seems like that study is just on the effect of meditation not the difference between meditation and the placebo effect

[Faceless]

Concentration meditation is to cultivate Thought/concentration 

attention meditation if “done correctly” there is no thought. 

[moon777light]

is increasing grey matter of the brain placebo to you?  

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Heck, I'd even say, you're not truly in a meditative state unless you get rid of psychological time. 

 

Yes

If time ends then one meditates however one wants. Then it is simply because one wants to participate in a certain form of meditation. 

As far as seeing what is and so on. Concentration can not be used for this. But otherwise concentration is great. 

[BjarkeT]

@moon777light the placebo effect have been shown to have real consequences on the body so it's hard to tell. They talk about it in the ted video i linked earlier.

[moon777light]

in that case, Everything in the world is a placebo, which is "true" to an extent