Discussion : Being Vegan - VS - not Being Vegan

[Monkey-man]

Why Dairy is bad? I always thought that milk and kefir are the most healthy things

[ppfeiff]

@Monkey-man You have been mis-educated my friend. Most of us have had to unwire this maniupulative programming.

Think about it: who told you dairy was good for you? The same people who have a horse in the race? In other words,  the same people who sold it to you?

Dairy is NOT good for you, nor are human beings designed to consume milk from other animals. Human beings are the only living creatures who voluntarily do this today.

Watch Leo’s video on the topic:

 

[Moreira]

In my experience, I practice lot of sport and go to the gym, I cannot live with a exclusive vegan diet. because I cannot reach the needed amount of nutrients I need only by plants. For example to meet the same amount of protein of a steak or turkey you have to eat 1 entire big broccoli, or a jar of lentins and this makes me the entire day in the WC or farting.... somehow my guts arent used to eat so much fiber

[sgn]

12 minutes ago, Moreira said:

In my experience, I practice lot of sport and go to the gym, I cannot live with a exclusive vegan diet. because I cannot reach the needed amount of nutrients I need only by plants. For example to meet the same amount of protein of a steak or turkey you have to eat 1 entire big broccoli, or a jar of lentins and this makes me the entire day in the WC or farting.... somehow my guts arent used to eat so much fiber

Why do you mention broccoli? Lol. I hear people do this quite a lot for some reason. 

If we take 100g dry red lentils for example it's around 24g protein.
100g of dry black beans = 22g protein.
Tofu = 18g.
Dry soybeans = 34g.

Your gut can get used to eat more fiber if you build it up. Most people don't reach RDI I think. And you can go way beyond that.
I eat quite a lot and I don't have a problem. I cured my IBS since I went vegan. My shits have reached perfection.
Also depends on how well you rince and cook the beans/lentils etc to reduce gas.
There's vegan protein powder also.

[Dragallur]

@ppfeiff Actually Leo's video is not the best share ever for the reason's why not to eat something since Leo did not cite a single source.

[ppfeiff]

@Dragallur I wasn't sharing Leo's video to make a scientific argument.

Sometimes you have to meet people where they are, and tailor advice to that

E.g. If you asked the question, I'd probably include citations. Cheers.

[Scholar]

It is quite interesting, I think most opinions on this matter are formed by culture. For me it is obvious that a more sophisticated civilization, with a people that are more compassionate and reasonable, will deem the act of animal exploitation as an unnecessary act of violence, quite similar to that of the killing of jews by the Nazis. I think Leonardo Da Vinci was absolutely right with his estimation:

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men.”

The fact that this is not yet the case is very telling of the condition of our civilization. 

To me it does not really feel like veganism is a personal choice, for me it is like not raping another human being, or not chopping babies into pieces. I find it funny that there is a word that describes beings that do not inflict excruciating suffering onto others unnecessarily. Usually we stigmatize the other way around. What is someone called who does not murder people for pleasure and self interest? I only know of sadists, psychopaths, murderers. Are we walking around and pointing fingers at people who are "empaths", who are not willing to fall into one of the first traps of the egoic mind?

What is most important to me is not the benefits of veganism, or whether or not it is right or wrong. What is important to me is what I see when I picture myself going back to consuming meat, dairy or eggs. When I picture it, I see someone who is weak. I see someone who is too selfish to take the difficult path. I see a being that is so egoic it is willing to cause unimaginable suffering to others just for it's own benefit. I see a being that was seduced by the devil within, by the sad creature that is afraid of death and suffering, so much so that it is willing to cause it in thousand-fold to other versions of itself. I see the pathetic excuse of a human being, one that exploits for no other reason but comfort. I see in that being everything that I deem undesirable, for me, the the ones I love, and the rest of the world. I see a being that is hindering the progression of mankind and nature. I see an evolutionary mistake that without question will be eradicated, whether in this generation, in the next, or in the late future.

I cannot imagine that such a being could ever attain the truths that I am set out to attain. I cannot imagine such a being to be truly joyous. I cannot imagine it on the path of true self-actualization. I cannot imagine it free of suffering.

 

I cannot play the game of life that way, I guess it is the will of the absolute, or my free choice, if there is any difference. The benefits of "veganism"? It is not murdering, torturing and enslaving other beings. It is reduction of suffering by the greatest degree that a human being is probably capable of in this day and age. It is contributing to the future of earth, to elevate us to a new level, to be one of the pioneers of compassion and reason. It is in my humble opinion an integral part of becoming self-actualized, whether some of our mentors can recognize that or not. This decision should not be difficult whatsoever for a even remotely developed human being, and if we look back at history, it truly never was.

[sgn]

@Scholar I agree fully 

[ppfeiff]

@Lorcan

On 3/3/2018 at 10:43 AM, Lorcan said:

What is the point of going full vegan? 

What is wrong with eating just 50g of tuna a day and eat the rest vegetables.

That way you get the benefits from haven eaten meat. Is it not so?

 

 

[h inandout]

@Outer Where is the research for this?  I have a hard time believing it, but I'm not always right...

[sgn]

@Outer You eat nutritional yeast?

[Star Net]

Hi @Outer

On 05.03.2018 at 11:01 AM, Outer said:

If you don't want to eat supplements, "chemicals", then sorry you have to eat meat like beef to stay healthy

 

No, I am not going to eat beef, Maybe I will eat supplements if I will need to, but I will keep searching about finding a sources for B12 and How can I prepare B12 in one way or another,

Actually I found one ( Yeast ) it has small amount of B12 about 0,1 µg per 100gram actually it contain good amount of protein too about 40g per 100 gram,

Take a look

https://www.google.iq/search?dcr=0&ei=M7-eWp2SNY30gQbcqp3QBw&q=Vitamin+B12+in+Yeast&oq=Vitamin+B12+in+Yeast&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i19k1l2j0i22i30i19k1l5j0i22i10i30i19k1j0i22i30i19k1.4990.19781.0.20157.27.26.0.1.1.0.373.4593.2-17j2.19.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..8.19.4370...0j0i67k1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1.0.T1B6Uya6Pn8

and I found that the Daily need for vitamin B12 for adult male over 14 years old is about 2.4 mcg

Take a look

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

I think You mentioned a way to consume yeast here

7 hours ago, Outer said:

I have it but I don't eat it. If I used it it was mostly as a cheese-like alternative. It's also called "Nooch". It has a good taste and texture in that sense.

If you really want to make it a cheese alternative, then blend nooch with cashews, salt, garlic powder and MSG. (monosodium glutamate, which is a salt form of glutamate, which is the umami taste found in tomatoes, parmesan cheese etc)

 

On 05.03.2018 at 11:03 AM, Outer said:

If blood tests for B12 in Iraq is cheap then you can take those every now and then

I think it is very cheap in Iraq, because I saw an ad in the street ( checking Your whole body for like about 50$ or 60$ as I remember )

I think people can do blood test even for free or very little amount of cost like 4$ in Iraqi public hospitals that belong to the government, but I think they have to have a problem or some kind of disease in order for them to have that option.

 

I will keep searching about the topic of vitamin B12, and by the way I think there is a good Business and investment opportunity here, because there are millions of vegans around the globe and most if not all of them are willing to consume a natural source of vitamin B12 over supplements.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Star Net

[Star Net]

I found good sources for protein and calories for vegan

 

 

for protein

Lentils : 9 g of protein per 100 gram of lentils

Chickpeas : 19 g of protein per 100 gram of chickpeas

Peas : 5 g of protein per 100 gram of peas

White beans : 6 g of protein per 100 gram of White beans

 

 

for calories

Pistachio : 562,1 kcal of calories per 100 gram of pistachio

almond : 575,5 kcal of calories per 100 gram of almond

Walnut : 654,4 kcal of calories per 100 gram of walnut

 

[sgn]

@Star Net Some of this is cooked weight and some dry?

[sgn]

23 minutes ago, LaminMP01 said:

The side affects of becoming a vegan to me is very alarming. It is obvious that some people will react negatively as others won't, so I believe that it is important to get tested by a doctor to see if their are any potential dangers to this type of diet. I believe that consumption of meat should be reduced, that's is why i'm very invested in the idea of going vegan 5 days then eating animal products 2 days. I believe that the animal industry will be more acclimatised to the trends in meat consumption and safely lower the vast numbers livestock to ensure the survival of their companies. This can lead to much more ethical practices within the animal industry as due to the much manageable numbers they can implement ethical practices with losing profit.

There is no side effects if you do it right.

Ok reducing is good. But why animal products 2 days a week?

What do you need from it?

And slaughtering animals will never be ethical. Ethical rape, enslavement and murder?
But I get what you mean. It's better the practices becomes less unethical. At best stopped entirely.

28 minutes ago, LaminMP01 said:

However, I disagree with veganism because if there is a movement big enough to stop the animal farming industry completely, I want to know what will happen to the millions of animals kept in captivity. They can't be let into the wild because humans have bred these animals for thousands of years with characteristics that would guarantee an imbalance of natural ecosystems against the survival of the animal. This will lead to more suffering than I believe vegans would expect because overpopulation of species will lead to the starvation and extinction of many predator and prey animals. I believe that their will be a few groups that will push for humans to animals such as pigs as pets apart from that many animals will be killed in a mass killings. I assume due to the vast numbers of some factory farms the methods of execution will be unethical. 

 

[Star Net]

Hi @sgn

No, They are all dry weights ...

[Clown]

I'm kinda of a semi-vegetarian. I guess there's a fancy name for it. I eat dairy, eggs and even fish occasionally. Meats have been off my menu for a good two years. All began on one day when I was frying bacon and putting the strips on the pan and thought that this was recently a living being that probably didn't want to die. And here I am eating its flesh like it's nothing. And all the shops have their walls full of dead animals and all of it doesn't even get eaten. Some of it just gets thrown away. Disgusting.

I base my eating more on conscience that any "-ism". I know I'm not that consistent with it, but ... you know

[sgn]

On 2018-03-06 at 11:09 PM, LaminMP01 said:

Something I want to discuss is how would, on a large scale, sanctuaries work for the farm animals. This interests me as will for example dog sanctuaries decline in the number of dogs they accept to facilitate the farm animals or will farms themselves have to turn into sanctuaries. will they work like zoos almost in the effort to educate people about animals. Will these animals go into zoos. Are zoos ethical for animals to be contained in. 

I can't say because I haven't researched it yet.

On 2018-03-06 at 11:09 PM, LaminMP01 said:

Also if you have any the links to any scientific papers regarding the medical aspect of how a vegan diet helps the human body. I would love see that thank you. 

I have not. I'm sure it's out there to find. I haven't been vegan for that long so I haven't had the time yet.
Very time consuming. Maybe someone else can link some.

Lemme recommend you some youtube channels:
Nutritionfacts.org
Mic. the Vegan

If you're interested in the ethical arguments and want to see some activism:
Joey Carbstrong
Earthling Ed
James Aspey

There's also some great vegan speeches out there.

On 2018-03-12 at 0:59 AM, LaminMP01 said:

How are you meant to know your getting the right amount of nutrition on a vegan diet ? 

https://cronometer.com

[sgn]

@Clown Good  What stops you from transitioning to vegan?

[Clown]

38 minutes ago, sgn said:

@Clown Good  What stops you from transitioning to vegan?

Good question. To be completely honest it's just that I find eating eggs and cheese convenient and I don't feel guilty eating them. Of course I always buy free-range eggs. When it comes to dairy, it's just basically grilled halloum that I eat most. I've changed milk to Oat milk and I even prefer the taste. Only use it in my coffee anyways. My excuse to eating fish is that I used to go fishing as a kid and could kill the animal with my own hands. That's something I couldn't do to a pig or a cow ever. Something like taking the responsibility for the life you're consuming.

At this point it personally just feels that going full vegan isn't quite necessary, although the thought itself doesn't seem too far-fetched. I also don't like restricting myself by giving my diet a label, because situations change and sometimes you might just eat what you're offered or starve.