Is Imagination (creativity) A Bad Thing?

[Waifu Yandere]

Ever since I've started my spiritual journey I've been wondering to myself, to what extent should creativity be valued? Should a person be imaginative in the first place? Because you see, spirituality requires the acceptance of reality while "creativity" is exactly the opposite. Imagination has the power to completely cover our current reality for e.g every time I play an instrument, listen to music, start a creative project (art, design etc), my mind goes to another world, totally masking reality. What are your thoughts on this? I'm afraid if I continue like this, I may never find the truth. Maybe I'm asking this as I haven't fully grasped the beauty of our current reality due to my low consciousness and when I reach a higher stage there would be no need to be imagine anything?

[Highest]

Imagination is part of the mind and it's not focused on here now. I wouldn't say it's a ''bad'' thing, but if you want enlightenment then drop fantasy. Imagination does have it's place and time, but too much of it and you are off track, most of our imagination is just that, imagination. 

[Waifu Yandere]

Is awakening possible if my daily work requires a lot of creative thinking but am aware of it?

[ajasatya]

@Waifu Yandere it's neither bad nor good. it's a human faculty so it depends on how you use it.

it's good if your dreams are aligned with your predisposition to work for them.

it's bad if you're seeking fulfillment in mental fantasies.

Edited October 13, 2017 by ajasatya

[Psychonaut]

How could you even come up with this question? 

How do you think this whole world came to life? Doesn't there seem to be some creative force that shines through it?

Is it possible that this creative force is you? 

[Waifu Yandere]

I guess everything is really about balance. I was thinking that my daily routine may hinder my progress to reach the truth as it consumes my mind and awareness of actual reality.

 

[Nahm]

20 hours ago, Waifu Yandere said:

Ever since I've started my spiritual journey I've been wondering to myself, to what extent should creativity be valued? Should a person be imaginative in the first place? Because you see, spirituality requires the acceptance of reality while "creativity" is exactly the opposite. Imagination has the power to completely cover our current reality for e.g every time I play an instrument, listen to music, start a creative project (art, design etc), my mind goes to another world, totally masking reality. What are your thoughts on this? I'm afraid if I continue like this, I may never find the truth. Maybe I'm asking this as I haven't fully grasped the beauty of our current reality due to my low consciousness and when I reach a higher stage there would be no need to be imagine anything?

I think there is a false premise of spiritually needing to accept reality, and finding imagination to be the opposite.  ime, creativity and imagination are more accessed by finding the truth within, vs accepting the illusion as reality.  

[dorg]

Reality is only what happens this moment. Imagination then takes over and imagines it is the experience of someone (yourself) located somewhere.

What you are calling imagination is only that of an imagined person imagined to be somewhere.

Edited October 13, 2017 by dorg

[Forestluv]

“IT” for me is *being* without thought or talking. Does one need to think to express creativity through art? 

[Joseph Maynor]

Creativity just flows-out for me -- I don't have to try to do it as much as I have to kind of tidy it up to make it presentable.  It's like the game Tetris where although you don't choose or make each block, you have to position each block to make it fit in with some reality condition on the ground in the moment.  So, a lot of art for me is organizing and presenting raw content after it spills out on the table for me.  That raw content just pours out of me, it is "birthed" to coin a term -- birthed out in a rough but inspired form.  That's what an artist is.  They're basically master communicators, communicators on a much higher level than normal.  They always keep their audience in mind too.  They're organizers -- they have a knack for how to arrange things to make them cool or hip.  They can communicate with anything -- sounds, images, words, etc.  I'm not saying I'm a master artist by the way, but I have a taste of it in me.

I don't think creativity is bad.  It's just a kind of work.  That's it.  It's pleasurable to go through the creative process.  It's a feeling of a collaboration between Nature and you.  Sometimes I sit here and watch the keys move on my keyboard and smile.  Playing a jazz solo on the bandstand feels exactly the same when it's going well.  Most of the time it's not going well though!  The creative process gets more neurotic the more pressure you are under to make it perfect right away.  The great thing about writing is you have an eraser and you are usually given enough time to revise.  A jazz soloist doesn't have an eraser!  You learn how to auto-correct when you play jazz where you can riff off any note or idea played and take it wherever the line needs to go to make the solo work.  I play jazz trumpet, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.  I learned a lot about creativity playing jazz.  You really learn how to honor your Muse, to get out of its way. 

You gotta know when to interfere and when to just let it happen.  That takes intuition and experience to master.  Let it flow out and then hone it, shape it.  Tell a story with it.  Make a trip out of it.  Take a person from point A to point B with it.  Sometimes all you gotta do is be a good arranger.  But it's that heightened sense of communication that an artist has -- you might call that aesthetic sensibility or taste.  Being tuned in to rhythm is also closely associated with artistry.  Even writing has rhythm, flow, energy, etc.  When I do a final read of my writing, I smile to see my fingerprint of aesthetic touch there.  Little things like how I used punctuation or how I turned a phrase etc.  That was me.  Art is the soul-stamp of the artist.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Waifu Yandere]

Wow, thanks guys for giving so much insight. I failed to realize whenever I do something creative, I don't have to think at all as you say.

[SelfPeace]

https://medium.com/@ramiaidy/the-evolution-of-organizations-consciousness-paper-ae537275a70b

Read up to the part about creativity and tell me what you think.

[Key Elements]

@Waifu Yandere Imagination is a tool, like art, for example. If you could find a way to incorporate it in your life purpose, career, work, etc., because it comes automatic and natural, that would be great - no stress/less stress and freedom. 

Did you notice our thoughts are automatic - coming from "nothingness." This could be used to our advantage. The answers are there. I think that's why they call it, "answered prayers."

[Waifu Yandere]

@SelfPeaceIf i understood correctly, "creativity" is another mechanism of the ego to aid survival? So it's essentially an "instinct" that is part of the animal brain like every other thing the ego does? This would suggest that creativity is part our lower consciousness or as Leo would called it "chimpery"? 

@Key ElementsYes it is clear that we have no control over our thoughts. I'm now quite confused, do creative ideas really come from "nothingness"? It definitely feels that way to me and others here at least. But now upon further thought, last night I had this dream that I was on a vacation to this city, it was quite surreal and I never saw it before; it was mesmerizing. But it was still a "city", something that we all know. I also realized that I (at least myself) could not come up with something that is truly "original". Everything that I make was based from something which makes me question, is creativity simply a manifestation from the accumulation of our perceptions that originates from the ego and our subconscious? I don't think thoughts actually come from nothingness since they are the creations of the "mind" just like imaginations and fantasies. Creativity for me at least is evidently accumulated just like our "self".

 

[Key Elements]

@Waifu Yandere ok. I get what you're saying. Question for you: what exactly is it that you're looking for?

For example, everyone talks about seeing the no-self, where everything is one, and it's all you. If you are looking for this, that's fine. However, you may want to be in a more peaceful time in your life or a more peaceful state of mind - like maybe perhaps being more settled and stable. In this case, using your imagination will help in life purpose / career etc. Imagination does help. Yes. Imagination comes from thoughts in the mind. You could get ideas from it, or allow it to pass by / flow by like a train and meditate. It's your choice. You have to decide that. You have to decide where you're at. 

[SelfPeace]

8 hours ago, Waifu Yandere said:

@SelfPeaceIf i understood correctly, "creativity" is another mechanism of the ego to aid survival? So it's essentially an "instinct" that is part of the animal brain like every other thing the ego does? This would suggest that creativity is part our lower consciousness or as Leo would called it "chimpery"? 

Nope, the complete opposite. Pure consciousness (or pure information-processing, awareness, wisdom, etc. whatever you want to call it) is not an object or a thing (i.e. No-thing). It's not of this world, its the light that illuminates the objects of this world. However, as conscious beings, the only way we discern information in order to act within the world of object  (the substrate of our subjective experience) is through consciousness (i.e. information-processing).

Naturally then, there needs to be a bridge between these two "worlds". That's what the ego is for. You can say then that pure consciousness, created (through the process of evolution) the ego in order to act within the world, as consciousness itself doesn't have a form.

Therefore, we're defining creativity as pure consciousness made manifest. Think of it like this: consciousness (no-form) = creativity (form).

We usually define creativity pretty narrowly, but I'm saying it's the ego's main aim. The ego is the mediator between the world of information (your subjective experience), or rather, novel information (i.e. chaos, or to the perspective of the ego, experienced as suffering) and the "world" of no-form, or consciousness (which is information-processing according to evolutionary theory). The process of mediation between the two is creativity. That's why the definition of true creativity should be one that aims to reduce suffering. 

Albeit, it's a bit to take in, try reading the "Individual, Consciousness" section more thoroughly, it's important to note that our sense of "I-am-ness" evolved as a means for the nervous system to better handle information from the environment. Let me know how I can clarify.

[SelfPeace]

@Waifu Yandere  Just to expand a bit more, think of consciousness as a way to make "sense" of information. What would you call someone who makes good "sense" of information? You'd probably call them "wise".

Think of the wisest people to live. Sages. What do sages technically do that most people neglect. They consistently try to establish a direct, unperturbed connection to consciousness. If we can say that creativity is just consciousness made manifest, then really sages are the most creative people on the planet. The greatest masters of history, in almost any "creative" endeavour have found a way to tap into this. They're in a state of pure flow, no-self involved, just consciousness doing it's thing in the world really. 

Notice you may not necessarily refer to these people as intelligent. There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence is a tool, of the ego, and is used narrowly, in certain circumstances to "compute" information, not necessarily make "sense of it. Consciousness, or the process of information-processing, is the only thing that can make "sense" of all things, as all things in the universe arrive as information.

[RichardY]

Imagine there's no heaven.

[Waifu Yandere]

@SelfPeace thanks for such a detailed explanation, it seems I'm still pretty naive. I have totally missed the mark on what "true" creativity is. I think I get it now. Mainstream ideology has definitely mislead me a bit in this area.

@Joseph Maynor when I reflect, most times when I do something creative, my "mind" eventually takes over and the pure "consciousness" turns into fantasies of the ego which I mistaken for creativity.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Waifu Yandere

[Waifu Yandere]

@RichardY isn't heaven nothing?