If There Is No External World, Why Does Physics Explain Vision So Precisely?

[enchanted]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Skyrim has such precise and consistent physics so Skyrim must be a real place, right?

Lol!

[Jodistrict]

This is an excellent question.  The nondualists look at it from the first person and say that the scientific theory is only another thought in your mind.  So they deny the validity of objective reality as knowledge.  For a more detailed discussion see works by Greg Goode.  The Ancient texts didn’t have science so they don’t talk about it.  I personally think the explanation is too simplistic.   Somehow they both have to be true.

[r0ckyreed]

That is an interesting thought: What is the reality of Whiterun if you are in Riverwood? 

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness is creating finite ontologies. So Consciousness creates atoms, for example.

[Loveeee]

Infinite intelligence 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness is creating finite ontologies. So Consciousness creates atoms, for example.

I always was baffled by why. But now i know.  Because it is free.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura I understand your point that reality is direct experience and that there is no external world behind appearances. But I have a question:

Physics explains vision through light reflecting off objects, entering our eyes, stimulating the retina, and being processed by the brain.

We can even predict and manipulate perception through glasses, eye surgery, retinal damage, or changes in lighting.

If there is no external physical world behind our experience, why do these mechanisms work so consistently and predictably?

I understand that you might say the eyes, light, brain, and scientific explanations are themselves appearances within consciousness.But doesn't that just move the question one step further?

Why does consciousness follow such precise physical laws, as if there were an independent external world?And what exactly causes vision to change when the physical eye is damaged, if the eye itself is only an appearance within consciousness?

//chatgpt helped to formulate my thoughts 

It's simple: because anything that exists is in relation with anything else. Without relationship there is not existence. And any relationship is dynamic, it's a change of state happening in relationship with another state.  Then everything must be perfect, synchronized without deviation, because otherwise simply it wouldn't exist. You could call it dream or my grand mother, but there is no existence without dynamic relationship, and for a dynamic relationship be stable and entangled with other dynamic relationship must be perfectly synchronized. 

Who does that perfect synchronicity? The fact that the absence of perfect synchronicity can't be. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Without relationship there is not existence.

This is false.

Existence is Unity, so it needs and even cannot have relations.

Existence is an absolute.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

What would you get if you got beneath quarks? Probably a layer under quarks.  And a layer under that. It will keep exposing itself to you. And it will confuse the scientist.  But then light was a wave. And it exposed only what you needed to see when they did shine it on it. You can't know what's in the box. Because it is always in a superposition 

Under the smallest unit of measurement is more smaller units. There is so much stuff that reality should be collapsing onto itself into a black hole under the weight. But its not because we are actually in the black hole and we aren't measuring objective reality we are measuring our own brains. The quarks are in your brain not physical reality.

Science looked so closely they see the pixels in the brain and went hang on im not even doing science 'out there' I'm actually measuring the screen in the brain.

They looked so closely the realized that outside of your body is a black hole. They are measuring the physics of a brain in a black hole.

The physics of reality is the headset.

Edited 54 minutes ago by Hojo

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura if it's true, God is a big liar. It tells me a story of thar there is an reality behind the object but it's just an appearance with nothing behind it. 

When I watch a movie, God creates it for me out of nothing and tells me someone produced it and my TV is running the movie. But nothing is, it's just an appearance and physics is imagined. 

When I take lsd everything becomes fluid. So I form reality with my mind. Physicality is suddenly less rigid. But it is catching up. 

Why is God not honest but lying to me about reality, producing an illusion. I have not chosen this life and am not in control. This is madness. 

Edited 55 minutes ago by OBEler

[r0ckyreed]

This is exactly the issue I struggle with. The external world is hard to deconstruct. Everything in my direct experience is pointing to something outside of it. If the phone rings, it points to a person I cannot see that exists. The most logical and sane conclusion to come to is that there is someone else in a room with a phone that I do not see that is talking to me on the other line.

But what is suggested is that there is no one on the other line and I am just imagining it.

@Leo Gura Any thoughts?

Edited 26 minutes ago by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Why is God not honest but lying to me about reality, producing an illusion.

Because without illusion there is nothing.

God needs to create the world for you to be able to see it. You are blaming God for creating a world for you.

You are like a child who just found out that Skyrim was created by programmers, and now you are upset at the programmers: "Why did you lie to me with this Skyrim? You mislead me to believe Skyrim was real, but you were faking Skyrim the whole time."

"Fuck you, Todd Howard, for tricking me with your Skyrim."

You want it both ways: you want Skyrim to be playable but you don't want anyone to make it. But if no one makes Skyrim then there can't be a Skyrim.

You are taking the existence of things for granted. Something has to create them. If you want to eat a pizza, pizza doesn't just magically exist, God has to create it first. But when you find out that God created the pizza you get upset because how God creates the pizza is as a hallucination. You want to eat a pizza but you don't want to know that you hallucinated it. In short, you demand that pizza exists independently of God, which is impossible.

Edited 16 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

@r0ckyreed you cannot see the other line because reality is like a forum. I am talking to you here you see me but my conciousness is not there. You see a person you see their body but their conciousness is not there as the only information you are receiving is from a source you cannot explain. 

 

Ie you can touch them but you feeling them is just sensors in your own hands going off you dont feel them you feel your own body. You see them but you seeing them is light reflecting into your eyes. You hear them but you hearing them is just your own ears shaking.

Whatever you see about another human is just your own bodies signals. You dont experience anything about the conciousness and its not even there.

Reality acts like a forum. Like this forum im here as an avatar the real me is not in the screen. The same way you see a person in real life thats there avatar and the real them is not there its somewhere else in another dimension.

Anything you xperience about an avatar is made up by your body. You cant feel or experience anything but your own body avatar.

 

Your physical eyeballs are not even in your direct experience if you look at the sky your physical eyeballs are behind the sky.

If you see a person your physical scientific eyeballs are behind the person. And unknown source or God is shining light into the physical eyes and there is a render happening inside the brain where you see them and think you are existing in a physical reality.

Edited 13 minutes ago by Hojo

[yetineti]

@Leo Gura

Your illusion terminology is misleading and relational.

I also think you try to explain away physical concepts with physical ideas sometimes and confuse your students.

For example, you know God didn’t create a world for anybody, technically; you’re God.

Why explain it that way then?

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, yetineti said:

For example, you know God didn’t create a world for anybody,

God is creating a world for you right now.

Are your consciously creating the world? No. God is doing it for you. Did you create the sun? No. God created it for you.

Edited 14 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[yetineti]

@Leo Gura
 

God can create everything, without it being for anybody or being separate from us.

You also assumed a lot of why that person thought what they thought. You don’t know any of that on principle of what it is you think they do not understand.

Edited 10 minutes ago by yetineti

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, yetineti said:

@Leo Gura
God can create everything, without it being for anybody or being separate from us.

So what?

[yetineti]

@Leo Gura

So—dumbing things down and making assumptions won’t convey high level concepts to people in conversation.

 

 

Edited 2 minutes ago by yetineti

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura If God is infinitely powerful, why can't it create a genuinely real physical universe within consciousness?

I understand that everything is ultimately consciousness. But why can't God create a world that has both an inside and an outside, where things genuinely exist beyond my immediate perception?

Think of Skyrim. When I look at a house from the outside, there's an actual interior programmed into the game, even though I can't currently see it. The world isn't limited to what's on my screen.

Why couldn't God create an infinitely more sophisticated version of that, including a persistent physical universe and genuinely independent conscious beings? Instead, your version of God seems to merely imagine the appearance of such a world.

Why not create the real thing? Why should an infinite God be limited to what is currently experienced?Isn't that a strangely reduced version of Infinity?