An Enlightened person does not experience emotional triggers

[Sincerity]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I promise, if you lose your child, you will be reactive too.

There would certainly arise a TON of emotion.

Probably reactivity too, yes. I never said this system is beyond it. Though it has been visibly making progress in that department.

[Joseph Maynor]

When we feel excited and passionate I feel like it is held against us sometimes.  

[Sincerity]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Plenty of Zen masters famously got triggered into a rage.

Reacted to, or simply experienced and expressed rage?

There’s nothing wrong with rage. I scream at the top of my lungs sometimes.

[Joseph Maynor]

But we can use this emotional problem card against anyone on the path.  This happens all the time.  

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura As somebody who has had a mental disorder, ocd for instance, you guys do not appreciate the heaven you're in if you have normal mental health. Like that's more significant than any enlightenment. Nothing like loss of mental health could teach you what hell is like. 

True. We take mental health for granted when we got it.

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Reacted to, or simply experienced and expressed rage?

Simply rage? You act like rage is rain from the sky. Who is causing that rage and why? Obviously rage is reactive. You are raging at someone for something.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Simply rage? You act like rage is rain from the sky. Who is causing that rage and why? Obviously rage is reactive. You are raging at someone for something.

Seems like everyone does this in their own way.  

[Spiritual Warrior]

When i wrote this post Ill admit, I was talking about much less severe blows to the ego, such as an insult, feeling unloved, getting cut off in traffic, etc.  My mind didn't go to the much more extreme experiences of life, such as a loved one dying. I would like to think that when I am enlightened, I will still cry when my wife or children pass on. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Spiritual Warrior

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Enlightened "person"?

Presupposes there is a person there to gain "enlightenment"... great paradox

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Terell Kirby]

You can take stock of how your mind is constructing your emotions while still be subjected to them. Same with physical pain and illness.

Just because it’s all imaginary doesn’t mean it isn’t real. We’re imagining emotions are real and the physiological sensations behind them.

[Eskilon]

28 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Enlightened "person"?

Presupposes there is a person there to gain "enlightenment"... great paradox

Clever girl as always.

But what if we replace enlightened person with elightened being? Now I want to see u getting your way around that 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

14 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Clever girl as always.

But what if we replace enlightened person with elightened being? Now I want to see u getting your way around that 

Oh! He wants to play! I'll take the above and serve you one better:

Is enlightenment something a person acquires, or is it the recognition of something that was never absent?

[enchanted]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura As somebody who has had a mental disorder, ocd for instance, you guys do not appreciate the heaven you're in if you have normal mental health. Like that's more significant than any enlightenment. Nothing like loss of mental health could teach you what hell is like. 

The irony is that chasing enlightenment can make you lose your mental health.

Its so typical of humans to keep wanting more; once people have mental health, they then want enlightenment. 

[Majed]

3 minutes ago, enchanted said:

The irony is that chasing enlightenment can make you lose your mental health.

Its so typical of humans to keep wanting more; once people have mental health, they then want enlightenment. 

@enchanted There are two ways to enlightenment: either take a psychedelic and you'll know the real deal. 

OR lose your mental health, and then regain it after some months or years. And you're baseline normal mental health would feel better than a mystical experience/psychedelic trip. 

If you were born in normal life, without having experienced heaven or hell, then it's normal life, after experiencing hell, it gets recontextualized as heaven. However i wouldn't say i am grateful for having experienced hell nonetheless overall. Because anyone who says they're grateful for hell, don't know real hell. 

[Joseph Maynor]

I love you all.  

[Eskilon]

44 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Is enlightenment something a person acquires, or is it the recognition of something that was never absent?

 @Natasha Tori Maru True that it does not seem to be something that one acquire per se.... but something like a recognition, a simple but profound one. And according to the spiritual tradition one must strive really hard to "get" it and at the same time no striving is necessary at all. I think letting go might have a place here to as a central component to this topic -- Oh fear! you and your thousand faces.

But the thing is, if it is so in your face, why so very few seems to be living from this place? Even people deep in spirituality, that does not mean they are living from that place. I think it must be such a deep responsability if you actually get it that some might not be ready for that ammout of duty after. Watchu think?

 

Edited 50 minutes ago by Eskilon

[kavaris]

Did yas figure out the flip side yet.

The flip side is like, nothing is possible without having that singular realm of sensibility fixed, such that you can feel things, like...

How is comedy possible for instance, without having yourself together?

How is love and expression possible without having yourself together? Hows anything possible? If you dont have yourself together ~ That is, if you dont have some equilibrium status w/ regards to thoughts, feelings and emotions, then you fall into cascades, cascades, cascades of experiences, in such a way that the cascading is itself what becomes most evident. And then you must reprioritize, cause its now like... Like its arrived, such that it eats at your attention, in multiple ways, beyond just yourself, such that the patterns underneath have been realized as something lackedaisily facing the wrong direct., plus, theres just alot of bad sides to it too, that is being lost in the woods like that.

Without equilibrium of those things yous are actively considering, you just have wildness and cascading in the wrong direction. People think they can handle it til they admit its not for them. Thats what psychedelics are often about, atleast for some. Its like initiation into the wild side of things, where you are challenging yourself w/ a quick succession of the high winded questions, lost in a forest, and you have to catch them, all the thoughts, otherwise you land on just one, like weve arrived in this very moment.

Enlightenment is just a word we use to express a thing thats true, or most true.

Why? Because yous are treating enlightenme t like its an algorithm, ora construct around ignorance.

Edited 44 minutes ago by kavaris

[Majed]

55 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Is enlightenment something a person acquires, or is it the recognition of something that was never absent?

Both. Enlightenment is something someone acquires because there's an ontological shift in consciousness. Consciousness is ontological, when increased, reality changes. 

Edited 41 minutes ago by Majed

[kavaris]

(Cont.) Yas cant detatch enlightenment from everything else, nor any other thoughts and experiences, like it matters what happens in the moment. When we try referring to things in a very dumbed down way, we are relying on alot of meta to be responsible. Like we want all of the actualization triggers to be responsible for the thing we hold within, but you dont even have enlightenment without all of those thoughts, exp., emotions, etc., so it *feels* like its a time felt exp., its just that the words you think had a meaning are gonna change, in the face of an experience where yous are to become enlightened, such that things that once looked like materiality and time arent gonna be materiality and time. The actualization triggers towards that matters and so too do the storyline and the builtup experience matters. It might even matter more you could say, and im saying it now.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

23 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

 @Natasha Tori Maru True that it does not seem to be something that one acquire per se.... but something like a recognition, a simple but profound one. And according to the spiritual tradition one must strive really hard to "get" it and at the same time no striving is necessary at all. I think letting go might have a place here to as a central component to this topic -- Oh fear! you and your thousand faces.

But the thing is, if it is so in your face, why so very few seems to be living from this place? Even people deep in spirituality, that does not mean they are living from that place. I think it must be such a deep responsability if you actually get it that some might not be ready for that ammout of duty after. Watchu think?

Good questions that I often bang my own head against. I don't have answers readily available. But I will ask:

When you say we might not be ready for the responsibility that follows on from recognition - do you mean we might fear losing our individuated identity and structures that protect us? Or do you mean genuinely recognising interconnectedness, oneness, unity which makes it increasingly more difficult to live selfishly? The distinction between ones own wellbeing and the wellbeing of others becomes less... psychologically convincing.

I normally find these sorts of discussions end up hinging around the integration aspect. Having that "recognition" meaningfully transform one's behaviour, relationships and responses to life. Integration is the unique part of the experience there is no map for, because it so often comes down "working out the lumps in our gravy" that are unique to our own conditioning.

CAN enlightenment overcome incentive structures and biology?