The solution to rape.

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru oh wow, consciousness in that sense probably has something to do with it feeling absolutely not normal for me, I got into spirituality very early so maybe that is why it never even has been a thing for me, not even a thought. So I think more unconscious you are the more it leads to more violent/seperate based behavior and thoughts. 

[Majed]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This is either changing position or qualifying what you originally meant (which is fine, sometimes we express our original premise better after review/dialogue, or we just phrased it a particular way). Sexual deprivation as the explanation for rape to a broader worldview change.

The missing mechanism is why someone who disregards another person's agency would adopt the proposed worldview, or why that worldview would prevent them from doing so?

@Natasha Tori Maru I feel like a lot of rape is fuled by artificial cultural expectations and demands about losing one's virginity or having a high body count, or that having sex means you're successful and cool, etc...

If we eliminate this immature notion of sex, to incorporate it in a broader notion of love and connection, which could be artistic and spirtual, not just purely physical, a lot of rape would automatically stop, because people would stop feeling the shame around not getting this toxic version of sex society has invented. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Majed

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Natasha Tori Maru oh wow, consciousness in that sense probably has something to do with it feeling absolutely not normal for me, I got into spirituality very early so maybe that is why it never even has been a thing for me, not even a thought. So I think more unconscious you are the more it leads to more violent/seperate based behavior and thoughts. 

You recognise and deeply know that other IS you. How could you participate in an act of self violation unless you do not recognises other as part of yourself, as yourself? Connection IS unity, is ONE, is infinity. Good connection to make

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Majed said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I feel like a lot of rape is fuled by artificial cultural expectations and demands about losing one's virginity or having a high body count, or that having sex means you're successful and cool, etc...

If we eliminate this immature notion of sex, to incorporate it in a broader notion of love and connection, which could be artistic and spirtual, not just purely physical, a lot of rape would automatically stop, because people would stop feeling the shame around not getting this toxic version of sex society has invented. 

Yep 100%. This is identifying all the other factors that contribute to why people rape. You identified social learning and social norms... Rape can also be caused by entitlement, disregard of consent, power, domination, aggression, coercive attitudes. Situational factors like impaired inhibition... sometimes personal affect/personality. There are more I am sure! The solution has to address all these causes. The underlying concept is very interesting. implementing it would require a much broader systemic shift.

[Majed]

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes i agree.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes i agree.

The downstream effects of love, connection, oneness, unity, nonduality and recognition of God conciousness are huge. I think you correctly identify one of these downstream effects in how we relate to each other - in how we express love, connection and pleasure through sex.

Edited 19 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Majed]

@Natasha Tori Maru My pleasure

[trenton]

@Majed 

I think this a complex issue requiring a multi pronged approach due to the variation in psychological profiles behind people who commit rape, both men and women. Currently, the research on female sex offenders isn't as robust as the research on male sex offenders.

The combination of issues to address in my opinion include the following.

Alcoholism, untreated PTSD, Veteran integration, war prevention (war often leads to rape due to impunity), sex education, sufficient funding for child protective services, teaching children resources their parental abusers wouldn't tell them about, a continued evolution away from the entitlement worldview, Growing recognition of marital rape, Pedophilia prevention similar to Germany which shows promising results with destigmatization, institutional oversight such as in schools and churches by preventing private lessons, a culture more broadly structured for crime prevention that doesn't rely just on the justice system, conflict management and broader social networking to prevent isolation in abusive relationships, effective means of protecting people in immediate danger, accountability for the rich and powerful, blocking CSAM to prevent material from spreading which monetizes trafficking, and many other issues as well.

Trafficking and incest are the hardest in my opinion and I don't think there is a clean solution. In the event that you are born to a father who is a gangster, and he likes to hang out with pedophiles who are interested in child prostitution deals while being crack addicts, then how can you realistically prevent child abuse in this situation? In this situation you don't even no what trafficking is until the last minute. I asked experts and political scientists on this issue and they argue that policy wise, there is almost nothing that can be done to protect a child in this situation. At best we can look for general patterns across society aimed at crime prevention, but if a parent betrays a child then realistically policy alone won't be able to solve such a thing.

International law and coordinated global efforts should be able to stop human trafficking to some degree, but I doubt that even if we somehow did close the jurisdictional gaps which allow this, that it would ever be enough to stop some parents from betraying their children. This would require a broader cultural and social change which allows a child to have multiple trustworthy adults able to watch each other, but I don't think it would be enough. There is even the problem of siblings sexually abusing other children. If a person's brain development can't be held to the same standard as an adult, then this complicates rape prevention.

Family is in my opinion one of the biggest challenges to solving this issue. Parents claim to protect children, but because of their position they are the ones who are most able to exploit such a vulnerability. Rape can realistically be reduced through a multi pronged complex intervention, but it would not be enough be prevent familial betrayal.

[something_else]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

@Olaf Then oh wise guru, explain why rapists exist, and their perspective. Go ahead i am waiting. 

Most rapists are not men who struggle to get sex. Rape is rarely about sexual needs. It’s about power. This is very well understood academically, you need only google it.

You said sex is more fundamental than power, but no. That’s wrong. The reason power makes sexual dynamics so hot is that power is often a prerequisite to sex. In the past, powerful men got the most sex and so these concepts of sex and power are tightly interwoven within our biology.

Obviously this can be expressed in healthy ways, but as a result of this a certain number of people desire really extreme or fucked up power dynamics. This creates rapists and pedophiles and the like.

It’s actually more common for men who have been in relationships, married, or slept around to rape a woman than men who are sexless. Again, you need only use google to see this is quite well established.

Really it wouldn’t surprise me if most of the guys who commit the crime of rape have slept around a lot. A sense of entitlement, not taking no for an answer, a need for power, and a need for control are all major motivators for rape. And as fucked up as it is, these traits overlap with superficially charismatic men, who probably don’t struggle to manipulate women.

On an even more fucked up point, the guys who struggle to get laid are probably largely incapable of committing the crime of rape. Again, this is incredibly fucked up and there’s no nice way to say it, but rape is not easy. It requires a certain messed up kind of confidence and strength that your average socially anxious sexless normal man probably just does not have.

One final point, most sexless men aren’t craving sex itself. They’re craving the love and desire that comes with it. Which of course you would not get from forcing someone to have sex with you.

In short:

Incel > doesn’t really have sex, craves love in the form of sex

Rapist > probably already has sex, but craves more power in the form of forced sex, or views sex as a way to assert dominance

Edited 17 hours ago by something_else

[Jirh]

In order to rape someone, you need to be alone with them in a room. But most incels cannot even get to that stage. And since you can't rape someone in public, that makes most incels incapable of rape.

Most rapists are actually people who have had lots of sex to the point that they now feel entitled to it, so they ignore consent and violate boundaries. They treat humans like objects of their desire. They have no respect for human boundaries, just like criminals have no respect for laws.

And rape can be more delicate than just taking someone against their will and penetrating them. For example, sex can start as consensual, but if your partner refuses something like giving you a blowjob, and you make them do it despite their refusal, then it is rape. So again, incels are the least capable of rape, because they can't get to that stage.

[Jirh]

Contemplate this:

Who is more likely to steal?

A poor homeless powerless beggar in the streets.

Or a leader in position of power and leverage.

[Jirh]

Who is more likely to kill?

An amputee.

Or someone with a gun.

[Jirh]

4 hours ago, Majed said:

If we erase the notion of sex altogether and replace it with love and connection we would be better as a society.

It's already love and connection from the rapist's pov. They just experience it in a malignant way.

From the rapist's pov, love and connection are a one-sided exchange, where they take and you give, regardless of your boundaries or consent.

Find a way to fix this malignancy, and you'll solve rape and crime.

[integral]

9 hours ago, Jirh said:

Contemplate this:

Who is more likely to steal?

A poor homeless powerless beggar in the streets.

Or a leader in position of power and leverage.

It's interesting that if you have power you're more likely to rape.

Quote

While having money or authority does not automatically turn every individual into a predator, high power significantly increases the probability of sexual harassment and violence because it lowers behavioral inhibitions, reduces empathy for victims, fosters entitlement, and creates institutional barriers that protect the abuser from consequences.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[trenton]

Have you guys researched the psychological profiles of sex offenders? I don't think you have.

The opportunistic or situational offender is usually someone socially isolated and desperate for connection. Therefore, this person is psychologically prone to seek approval from any group available including anti social peers who encourage this behavior. An example would be a man who sexually harassed a woman for the approval of his peers despite deep down feeling it was wrong.

The pattern scales with gang dynamics in which sexual access is used as a sign of status. This includes trafficking and rape while demonstrating commitment to the gang through acts that are universally condemned like child sexual abuse. This is also lucrative as a black market.

I should also mention that incest perpetrators often are situational offenders. It can be due to alcoholism combined with many psychological problems that makes a father think having sex with his daughter is love while believing it is not harming her.

The grievance based offender is usually an intimate partner. This person is often narcissistic and feels entitled to a woman he treats as property. He often rapes a woman in the bedroom, but if the woman tries to leave then the documented rape will be at the time of the murder. This is why I discussed previously that infidelity can lead to murder in these cases of intimate relationships. A sense of betrayal hurts the fragile ego of a narcissist who wants to be in control.

The preferential offenders are pedophiles and sadistic serial rapists who torture victims. These are less common, but because of the tendency to repeat offenses they are classified as more dangerous than the other profiles.

If you explore the criminological profiles of sex offenders, then it informs your prevention strategies. Without this information, your positions are probably weak in terms of suggested solutions.

[Leo Gura]

Those who rape don't care about love, connection, spirituality, nor morality.

[Majed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Those who rape don't care about love, connection, spirituality, nor morality.

@Leo Gura Then what do they care about ? 

[Schizophonia]

Lol

[Xonas Pitfall]

Men can get “artificial” sex through strip clubs, prostitution, sex workers, etc. The “artificial” solution already exists. If you’re that desperate for “artificial” sex, then paying a sex worker shouldn’t be that huge of a leap.

Rape is a much more complex issue than simply being about views on sex.

Entitlement, power, the belief that you can do something and get away with it; some men don’t regard women as people whose choices or autonomy matter; they don't care: "I can get what I want when I want it, etc." “Well, I’d like it if a girl raped me, so what is this bitch whining about?” There isn’t much consideration for the other person’s perspective because rape is inherently a self-focused act.

Some people think others are stupid or suckers, while they’re the smart ones who know how to cheat the system. And for some of those people, they really need to be jailed and face punishment before they can ever become aware. It’s a very “stubborn” kind of consciousness.

Edited 2 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura Then what do they care about ? 

Their ego trip.

They are on an ego trip.