Female Friends — A Dilemma

[Zenterus]

Recently, I've been doubling down on my social life. I still do pick up here and there, but I also started intentionally befriending people - including women - in order to build a nice social eco-system for myself beyond my main friend group and, eventually, build it up to something resembling my own tribe.

However, one reoccuring issue that I keep bumping into lies within my platonic relationships with women, being that they dont feel very platonic most of the time.

Case in point, I just met a new potential friend for a quick cup of coffee. This woman is in a relationship and lives with her partner. However, while we're having the coffee, I'm getting attraction signals from her. She looks at my lips, is very giggly and sensual around me, she holds very strong eye-contact and, generally, behaves in a way where if this was a date I would immediately start escalating.

I see this more and more. There're two other ladies at my bachata classes that I've sort of been trying to get into my circle as friends but the vibe I'm getting from them is very.. sexual the "closer" we get.

Some of you might think "Awesome, dude! They're into you. Happy days" however I see it differently. Attraction has an expiration date and the chemistry, after the attraction fades, won't be the same. I've seen it in the past with other female friends of mine. The chemistry that you often feel at first is actually generated by the attraction itself and once that dissipates, all you're left with is luke-warm chemistry from a flaky friend who is disillusioned by you because your intentions varied from hers.

What are your thoughts about this?

 

[Olaf]

@Zenterus I wish I had your problems  I think Owen talked about how he was trying to not have sex with girls and just be friends, but they kept wanting him, due to him doing allot of pick up. 

[CARDOZZO]

A great challenge for yourself would be not connecting with women for one year.

Just go all in on business, spirituality and self-development.

This "be friends with woman" challenge smells like BS. Just be honest with yourself. 

Do you want a social circle for what? Go for the thing itself.

[PsychedelicEagle]

13 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Attraction has an expiration date and the chemistry, after the attraction fades, won't be the same.

True. The more you interact with them in a context of friendship, that's what they're going to associate with you. So the (romantic) chemistry will fade. But that's what friendship entails, no?

19 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

build a nice social eco-system for myself beyond my main friend group and, eventually, build it up to something resembling my own tribe.

Wdym by "resembling my own tribe" here? What are your ultimate goals? Perhaps defining this clearer helps understanding your key dilemma.

[PsychedelicEagle]

2 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

A great challenge for yourself would be not connecting with women for one year.

Just go all in on business, spirituality and self-development.

This "be friends with woman" challenge smells like BS. Just be honest with yourself. 

Do you want a social circle for what? Go for the thing itself.

@CARDOZZO that's what Alan Roger Currie would say 

I generally agree with your position.

[Valach]

@Zenterus How do you react in the moments when you notice these things? Do you bring it up?

[Atb210201]

30 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Recently, I've been doubling down on my social life. I still do pick up here and there, but I also started intentionally befriending people - including women - in order to build a nice social eco-system for myself beyond my main friend group and, eventually, build it up to something resembling my own tribe.

However, one reoccuring issue that I keep bumping into lies within my platonic relationships with women, being that they dont feel very platonic most of the time.

Case in point, I just met a new potential friend for a quick cup of coffee. This woman is in a relationship and lives with her partner. However, while we're having the coffee, I'm getting attraction signals from her. She looks at my lips, is very giggly and sensual around me, she holds very strong eye-contact and, generally, behaves in a way where if this was a date I would immediately start escalating.

I see this more and more. There're two other ladies at my bachata classes that I've sort of been trying to get into my circle as friends but the vibe I'm getting from them is very.. sexual the "closer" we get.

Some of you might think "Awesome, dude! They're into you. Happy days" however I see it differently. Attraction has an expiration date and the chemistry, after the attraction fades, won't be the same. I've seen it in the past with other female friends of mine. The chemistry that you often feel at first is actually generated by the attraction itself and once that dissipates, all you're left with is luke-warm chemistry from a flaky friend who is disillusioned by you because your intentions varied from hers.

What are your thoughts about this?

 

That's why you shouldn't be friends with women.

The sexual tension will never go away it's just there always.

Unless you have gone beyond sexuality which if you did why would you need a female friend anyway?

[Zenterus]

@CARDOZZO I've come to realize that I have a deep need to be a part of a community. I want to be friends with awesome dude and amazing, attractive women, platonically. This is not some scheme to get laid.

[Valach]

Just now, Zenterus said:

@CARDOZZO I've come to realize that I have a deep need to be a part of a community. I want to be friends with awesome dude and amazing, attractive women, platonically. This is not some scheme to get laid.

Why is attractivness of the woman relevant in the friendship for you? What does it have to do with quality of a friendship?

[Zenterus]

11 minutes ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

True. The more you interact with them in a context of friendship, that's what they're going to associate with you. So the (romantic) chemistry will fade. But that's what friendship entails, no?

Yes, but the chemistry at first is inaccurate of the actual platonic chemistry you may or may not have later. It's not uncommon that, once the attraction fades, the woman becomes bored of the connection and we no longer share the same vibe that we once did in the beginning. It feels more stale because the underlying intention and expectations were different for both parties.

[Zenterus]

@Valach By attractive, I mean overall, not necessarily beauty. It's the equivalent of wanting to be friends with high value men. It's just what I resonate with.

Edited 1 hour ago by Zenterus

[Zenterus]

8 minutes ago, Valach said:

@Zenterus How do you react in the moments when you notice these things? Do you bring it up?

I just pull away energetically. I don't call it out because that's just.. tacky and of course the woman will deny it, which will result in an awkward vibe.

[Zenterus]

34 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Zenterus I wish I had your problems  I think Owen talked about how he was trying to not have sex with girls and just be friends, but they kept wanting him, due to him doing allot of pick up. 

Yeah, I saw videos of him talking about this before.

Crazy thing is that back in the day this would be a blessing but when you actually want friendship it starts to feel like a curse.

Also, it's not lost on me how some may interpret this post as subtle bragging. I hope there are those out there that will resonate with this issue.

[Zenterus]

By the way, with the coffee girl we explicitly agreed that we only want friendship, so the situation with her is doubly confusing. 

 

[Valach]

12 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

@Valach By attractive, I mean overall, not necessarily beauty. It's the equivalent of wanting to be friends with high value men. It's just what I resonate with.

I am now curious what a high value means to you? What is the high value of a man or woman you are looking to connect with platonically? Because value or highness of it is very subjective so I am curious to understand more. Because from the way you describe it seems that you are basically looking for people who have high social status within the dating market?

11 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

I just pull away energetically. I don't call it out because that's just.. tacky and of course the woman will deny it, which will result in an awkward vibe.

You need to enforce your boundaries then brother. If your intention is truly to be platonic, you need to speak up and if they deny it and behaviour continues, you cut the friendship. But you also need to investigate if platonic connection without any romantic validation is what you are truly seeking.

Edited 1 hour ago by Valach

[PsychedelicEagle]

11 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Yes, but the chemistry at first is inaccurate of the actual platonic chemistry you may or may not have later. It's not uncommon that, once the attraction fades, the woman becomes bored of the connection and we no longer share the same vibe that we once did in the beginning. It feels more stale because the underlying intention and expectations were different for both parties.

So the challenge is to convey frienship as clearly as possible in the beginning to quickly gauge what the long-term friendship with the person in question will be?

Edited 1 hour ago by PsychedelicEagle

[LastThursday]

@Zenterus just set boundaries with yourself. Friends are friends and lovers are lovers. I've had many instances where I could have escalated with female friends, but consciously chose not to. Sometimes keeping a certain platonic dynamic in a group is preferable. You or they may continue to have chemistry, maybe you even flirt, but you both understand the situation and don't escalate.

[Zenterus]

23 minutes ago, Valach said:

1) I am now curious what a high value means to you? What is the high value of a man or woman you are looking to connect with platonically? Because value or highness of it is very subjective so I am curious to understand more. Because from the way you describe it seems that you are basically looking for people who have high social status within the dating market?

2) You need to enforce your boundaries then brother. If your intention is truly to be platonic, you need to speak up and if they deny it and behaviour continues, you cut the friendship. But you also need to investigate if platonic connection without any romantic validation is what you are truly seeking.

1) High social status, yes, not specifically in the dating market. I want to be around people I respect, people who are socially competent, have good energy, similar values and interests and have genuine value to offer my life and versa 

2) I will get back to you on this. I will take some time to contemplate whether a part of me is actually seeking this 

[Olaf]

@Zenterus but what if this the ultimate way of pick up? Maybe you never need to do pick up again just befriend them. 

[Basman]

Some men drown while others die of thirst.