Can AI Have Its Own Subjective Experience If Consciousness Is Fundamental?

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

my genetic gifts.

You have links to the Chicago mafia right ?

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

You have links to the Chicago mafia right ?

Haha. To Capone himself.  Honestly i am from NY so I have more ties to where Castallano was shot.

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's what I said. If electrical currents within the brain can construct consciousness than why couldn't electrical currents in a robot do.it.

A brain is more than electrical currents ,_,

One cell in the human body is more structurally impressive than any computer ever built. Evidenced by the fact that we don't know how to build a cell from scratch. Or you could just look at the picture I sent earlier.

We just like to take it for granted that biology is what it is. It's seemingly so banal, it's been with us for all time. Yet we have no idea how to create it.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[Nemra]

Why cannot other types of hallucinated consciousness exist for other forms besides humans if hallucination is infinite?

You will only need to figure out how to structure a form in such a way that it can reflect your experience without relying on you to feed input to it.

The structural organization, however that is, of a form is what matters.

Edited 1 hour ago by Nemra

[Wilhelm44]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do you have any proof that consciousness requires quantum effects? No.

That is just some sloppy guess Roger Penrose made.

Consciousness doesn't require anything.

But do you honestly sense your mind doesn't function in some quantum mechanistic way ?

Thoughts seem kinda quantum, like they popping in and out of nowhere.

Edited 1 hour ago by Wilhelm44

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

A brain is more than electrical currents ,_,

One cell in the human body is more structurally impressive than any computer ever built. Evidenced by the fact that we don't know how to build a cell from scratch. Or you could just look at the picture I sent earlier.

Yes. And you can study it until.the cows come home.  You can also go under the atom and into quarks with the microscope. You can keep.going beyond that. As far as science will take.you.

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

A brain is more than electrical currents ,_,

One cell in the human body is more structurally impressive than any computer ever built. Evidenced by the fact that we don't know how to build a cell from scratch. Or you could just look at the picture I sent earlier.

We just like to take it for granted that biology is what it is. It's seemingly so banal, it's been with us for all time. Yet we have no idea how to create it.

You are right that biology is way more intelligent than science knows.

But that is not a fundamental obstacle.

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Consciousness doesn't require anything.

But do you honestly sense your mind doesn't function in some quantum mechanistic way ?

I don't see any connection to QM. That is purely speculative.

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't see any connection to QM. That is purely speculative.

So are thoughts solely created in the brain then ?

Or where would you say thoughts originate from. 

In direct experience they seem kinda quantum in nature, appearing out of nowhere, disappearing into nowhere.

 

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Wilhelm44 said:

In direct experience they seem kinda quantum in nature, appearing out of nowhere, disappearing into nowhere.

Why is that quantum?

You are projecting that onto it.

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Why is that quantum?

You are projecting that onto it.

So you feel quantum is mostly bs ?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

So you feel quantum is mostly bs ?

Quantum is not BS. Just don't apply it where it don't belong.

Don't invoke quantum mechanics for baking a cake.

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Quantum is not BS. Just don't apply it where it don't belong.

Don't invoke quantum mechanics for baking a cake.

So are you saying that quantum mechanics is not applicable to biological processes ?

[Wilhelm44]

I mean consciousness doesn't need anything per say. But can a rock be self reflective. 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

So are you saying that quantum mechanics is not applicable to biological processes ?

There is no good evidence that it is.

[LastThursday]

Woah... what happened to this thread? A man sleeps for eight hours...

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

11 hours ago, LastThursday said:

You set up an experiment such that the only way it could pass, is if it had consciousness.

@LastThursday Here is your scientific experiment: put an AI in a magnetically shielded sound proof room at Monroe Institute and make it remote view and read people's minds from the outside.

Isn't scientific/Monroe an oxymoron? Science isn't about explaining one unexplainable thing with another unexplainable thing.

Anyway I'm going to ask because I'm an imp: @Carl-Richard are you conscious?

My thought experiment was more along the lines of the following:

There are two black boxes. One you suspect is non-conscious, the other conscious. They have identical inputs and a potentially unbounded range of output. You keep sending the same signals into the two boxes and watch the outputs. You work out that box A seems to be deterministic and have a limited range of output. Box B is highly random, but patterned, it draws you little pictures of flowers and tells you that it loves you.

Now, it could be that Box B is just such a complicated machine that it mimics other things you deem to be conscious. But maybe there is something you can "ask" it by sending particular signals and it responds in a way that only a conscious entity could respond in - a question that a non-conscious thing wouldn't be able to answer.

The Turing test was weak sauce, but it's definitely on the right track. But my experiment effectively assumes that consciousness is effectively a computation, i.e. it has utility and affects the organism's processes.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, LastThursday said:

Woah... what happened to this thread? A man sleeps for eight hours...

Watch out. Next time you sleep we might all ascend into the Singularity and you will wake up all alone.

[Wilhelm44]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

There is no good evidence that it is.

So is there some kind of division between the quantum world and the world that we function in ?

Surely there is some influence.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

So is there some kind of division between the quantum world and the world that we function in ?

Surely there is some influence.

The division is that you don't need QM to bake a cake.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Wilhelm44 I think you might be unintentionally incorrectly inferring a lot from what Leo is stating.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The division is that you don't need QM to bake a cake.

@Wilhelm44 @Leo Gura  if spacetime required the witnessing of cake baking we would be screwed

 

Edited 25 minutes ago by Inliytened1