The islamic world, an example of stage red

[Majed]

I think many westerners who are higher up the spiral clearly see Islam as being a stage red culture. Oppression of women, pedophilia, war, slavery... Are clearly a hallmark of stage red. I recommend we study the Islamic world to understand stage red better. Many would argue with me saying the Islamic world is stage blue. And I would respond to that that there are some elements of blue within the Islamic world, same way there are elements of purple. However, the center of gravity of the Islamic world is stage red. Stage blue isn't as bad as what we see in the Islamic world of terrorism, violence, slavery of women... The Islamic world is clearly the best example of an irrational (or prerational), animalistic, immoral culture, similar to north Korea, but on a wider scale. 

 

[PolyPeter]

I think this is too reductive. Islam and Muslim-majority societies contain Purple, Red, Blue, Orange and even Green elements, just like other civilizations.

Traditional Islam actually has many strongly Blue features: divine law, morality, discipline and obedience to a higher order.

At the same time, certain political movements and cultures clearly express Red dynamics (of the worst kind).

Rumi and Sufism are also a good reminder that Islamic civilization has a deep mystical dimension centered on love, ego-transcendence and direct experience of God.

So I'd distinguish Islam itself from the developmental center of gravity of particular disfunctional and ugly Muslim societies.

[PolyPeter]

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

Oppression of women, pedophilia, war, slavery... Are clearly a hallmark of stage red.

Sounds not unlike America

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Majed said:

Stage blue isn't as bad as what we see in the Islamic world of terrorism, violence, slavery of women...

Just keep in mind that what you see on the news is the cherrypicked worst cases. Most Islamic people are peaceful and decent.

The news is not a proportional or fair representation of any society. You must go out of your way to balance out the evil with the many good sides of society.

Edited August 21 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just keep in mind that what you see on the news is the cherrypicked worst cases. Most Islamic people are peaceful and decent.

The news is not a proportional or fair representation of any society. You must go out of your way to balance out the evil with the many good sides of society.

He literally just made a thread arguing Islam was more advanced than actualized.org

He is a troll 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

He is a troll

He is grappling with sense-making.

It is not easy to make good sense of all this stuff. Sense-making requires the latitude to explore various views.

Edited August 21 by Leo Gura

[Human Mint]

I see them as predomintantly blue. With red I picture less organized tribes. But jihadists for example, they value violence religiously and they considers themselves to be a state. 

We should get a bit of education on the Islamic world in western schools. I got none. News was my education. 9/11 is basically all I knew about that part of the world. In my school, 95% of geopolitics education we got was about what happened only in my country, that's not very useful.

Edited August 22 by Human Mint

[Davino]

I'm currently in Egypt, which I consider an Islamic stage blue country and have found it profoundly eye opening to see for myself how people live here.

It's very similar to my country a hundred years ago, but with a different flavour.

There's also a beauty about stage blue that I had forgotten and only heard from my grandmother. The simplicity, the clear roles and sense of good and bad, the closeness of brotherhood and hospitality. 

The bad we already know, sexism, terrorism, fanatism, us vs them mentality, lots of corruption (all police is corrupt and bribery is very common), people drive like crazy (a fifteen year old driving with no helmet, chatting through the phone, listening to music in headphones, and smoking; all the same time), throwing trash everywhere or to the river Nile, lots of poverty, animals in bad conditions everywhere, etc.

I encourage to take a plane to the places you fear or hate, it's life transforming and a way to make your vacations a tool for understanding and self-developement.

If you wanna understand this is the way, after some point stop theorising and go experience every domain for yourself, put your balls on the chopping block for understanding.

Edited August 22 by Davino

[Alexop]

@Davino was there and had so many insights. Unfortunately many tourists don't see the beauty in their culture, they see only the bad sides. 

In some way, many live well there, especially of you are a well of man. Even women live well, if they have a man who takes care of them. Because they don't know they are oppressed.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

One of the perks of the non religious societies, is you get to see the reality of human nature unfolding without any religious cultural restrictions blinding your view with falsehoods. I actually happen to appreciate that

[Heaven]

This post is a great insight for why Israel is insisting to have strong borders.

Btw for people who don’t know. In the north of Israel is Lebanon although a terror organization by the name “Hezboalla” is dominating in the south which is where the border is.

Syria, Jordan and Egypt are also neighbors with Israel.

 

Edited August 22 by Heaven

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Heaven said:

This post is a great insight for why Israel is insisting to have strong borders.

Btw for people who don’t know. In the north of Israel is Lebanon although a terror organization by the name “Hezboalla” is dominating in the south which is where the border is.

Syria, Jordan and Egypt are also neighbors with Israel.

 

Israel doesn’t have strong borders, it doesn’t declare official borders so it can keep expanding and install settlers on the stolen land to create security risks, this created multiple security disasters precisely because borders are weakened by overstretching resources and antagonizing natives

- Yom Kippur war, after Israel seized the Sinai it ignored repeated diplomatic offers from Egypt to return it, Egypt then invaded and killed thousands of idf 

- Intifadas, Israel installed settlements on Palestine and used them to make their peace offers worse, resulting in uprisings killing thousands of Israelis

- occupation of south Lebanon, Hezbollah formed as an organization to resist this and persists to this day now having access to dangerous drones which have killed dozens of idf occupying parts of the south 

 - Oct 7, israel moved guards from the Gaza border to the West Bank to help settlers, allowing Hamas to attack and cause the worst single day security failure in history

Edited August 22 by Raze

[Davino]

11 hours ago, Alexop said:

 

In some way, many live well there, especially of you are a well of man. Even women live well, if they have a man who takes care of them. Because they don't know they are oppressed.

I agree, I've discovered there are no poor countries in the world, they are even and uneven distributions of wealth (this is a diagnosis, not claiming how to solve this). In so called poor countries, the rich elite live much better than the normal rich in European countries. The mansions I've seen in Egypt are almost unheard of in Europe.

Also women are not as oppressed as I thought specially for rich families, in general most women are well integrated in society and work, but there are some strong details like a constant masculine sense of superiority and domination, which are very off.

Also quite an interesting thing I noticed is that being sex and love affection so restricted and oppressed in these countries, actually having sex within the country feels so pleasurable and exciting. In contrast with US or other highly sexualized places I've visited, actually having sex loses that spark. It's been a very interesting insight that I already had on an individual level, but the twist on the collective has given a holistic ripple to my understanding in the matter.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Davino said:

In contrast with US or other highly sexualized places I've visited, actually having sex loses that spark.

A glass of lemonade has extra spark in the middle of the Sahara.

[Davino]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A glass of lemonade has extra spark in the middle of the Sahara.

Ahahha true, there's an Arabic riddle that goes:

What can never be missing from any meal?

Answer: Turn your phone upside down:

ɹƃu∩ɥ

[Nivsch]

@Majed How is it going in Lebanon?