Islam vs actualized.org

[Oppositionless]

I'll be honest, it's still hard for me to understand how God realization is different from traditional nonduality, maybe I haven't tripped enough (then again Leo also says to not trip much in your 20s sooo....). By traditional nonduality I mean Advaita Vedanta , not Buddhism, although plenty of Buddhists said Advaita things , like Huang Po and Bankei who said all was mind.

But what I will say is, Leo excels in the realms of developmental psychology and conscious politics, that's something the traditions don't have.

Edited Tuesday at 08:05 PM by Oppositionless

[LordFall]

@gengar

I won't be editing my comment. If you post extreme tier-lists in a heated thread—satire or not—you own the fallout. Poe’s Law exists for a reason: on a forum where people unironically champion fundamentalist regimes, satire is indistinguishable from genuine dogma until stated otherwise.

Since you want a "proper historical analysis," here is why your defense of institutional Islam's role in science still falls apart:

The "Theology vs. Science" Delusion: You claim Ibn Sina and Al-Razi were persecuted for "theology, not science." In medieval Islam, natural philosophy and theology were inseparable. When Al-Ghazali wrote The Incoherence of the Philosophers, he explicitly attacked physical cause-and-effect itself (arguing cotton burns because Allah wills it, not due to heat). Orthodoxy crippled empirical science at its root.

Imperial Logistics not equalling Religious Validation: You credit Islam for libraries and trade networks. Every expanding empire builds infrastructure, medicine, and trade out of geopolitical necessity. Crediting the religion of Islam for the Golden Age simply because it happened inside an empire is like crediting the Roman Gods for the aqueducts.

The Mu'tazilite Exception Proves the Rule: The rationalist Mu'tazilite period was a brief 9th-century anomaly enforced by state inquisitions (Mihna). As soon as political power shifted, Ash'arite orthodoxy took over, shut down independent reasoning (Ijtihad), and locked the door for centuries.

Respect for your personal journey of reasoning your way out of the religion—that takes real intellectual courage. But scientific progress occurred in friction with Islamic orthodoxy, not as its byproduct.

[yetineti]

This debate's like comparing Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. What you need depends on what grade you're in. 

[Thought Art]

« Dont you effing compare apples and oranges » 

I’ll contemplate whatever and however I want thank you. 
 

Actualized isn’t a religion. Islam is.

Actualized teaches infinite consciousness, pure philosophy and advanced personal development and more. I to hard to encapsulate something so broad. 
 

Leo, I don’t really get the guy. He contains multitudes. 
 

Islam teaches God is infinite, all compassionate. It teaches contemplation, regular connection to gods grace. 

I don’t know if Mohammad ever existed but assume he did. I doubt he is perfect. But, God doesn’t choose perfect he chooses perfectly. I’m not sure of what any prophet truly is.

You can take aspects of Islam that work, and are actual rational and link them to wider topics of yoga, health, zen, etc. If you are a seeker of wisdom and can handle not needing to accept everything is a school of thought you can find wisdom. You can take that wisdom., and apply it
 

The heart can sing in its remembering of the union of which Islam can invoke. 
 

Actualized, again is hard to explain. How to explain the deepest of trips? Or the paradoxical immaturity of it’s creator? Or, the depths and preciseness Leo has explicated in his profound video catalogue. 

Edited Thursday at 02:22 PM by Thought Art

[Husseinisdoingfine]

On 8/15/2026 at 10:04 AM, Leo Gura said:

Islam is idiocy compared to what I teach you.

Amen.

The people in my life are only muslims not out of a genuine desire for truth but out of conformity reasons and it fulfills the community and belonging needs in the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. 

[LordFall]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

« Dont you effing compare apples and oranges » 

I’ll contemplate whatever and however I want thank you. 
 

Actualized isn’t a religion. Islam is.

Actualized teaches infinite consciousness, pure philosophy and advanced personal development and more. I to hard to encapsulate something so broad. 
 

Leo, I don’t really get the guy. He contains multitudes. 
 

Islam teaches God is infinite, all compassionate. It teaches contemplation, regular connection to gods grace. 

I don’t know if Mohammad ever existed but assume he did. I doubt he is perfect. But, God doesn’t choose perfect he chooses perfectly. I’m not sure of what any prophet truly is.

You can take aspects of Islam that work, and are actual rational and link them to wider topics of yoga, health, zen, etc. If you are a seeker of wisdom and can handle not needing to accept everything is a school of thought you can find wisdom. You can take that wisdom., and apply it
 

The heart can sing in its remembering of the union of which Islam can invoke. 
 

Actualized, again is hard to explain. How to explain the deepest of trips? Or the paradoxical immaturity of it’s creator? Or, the depths and preciseness Leo has explicated in his profound video catalogue. 

Nobody is perfect that's what being a human is. It's very frustrating to put a lot of effort into something and then have people invalidate it with platitude.

Especially clueless people lol; what on earth are you talking about you don't know if Muhammad existed? So you have 0 knowledge of Islam's history and just watched a few videos on Youtube and are now writing many posts praising it? That's pretty wild my guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Muhammad was born in a tribe of wealthy merchants called the Quraysh tribe who controlled the area around Mecca even before Muhammad's rise. He was a middle manager type merchant working for a a businesswoman named Khadijah who he later married. He was deeply troubled by the inequality of the world and the chaos of it and would at times isolate in a cave to meditate in a cave and find peace. At about 40 years old he had a vision of apparently the angel Gabriel and he embarked on his religious adventures and conquest that we know him from today. 

Were you arguing with me over multiple pages over if he's a warlord or not without even having researched the guy?  Come on bro 

Edited Thursday at 04:55 PM by LordFall

[Thought Art]

@LordFall … You don’t know if any historical person existed… I was attempting to be responsible to say we really don’t know the truth of these historical figures. Which, is important when considering an ancient school of thought and its recorded history. 

You’ve repeated the history I know. And, I said in this thread the audiobook I’ve been listening to already of why I felt there is something profound in the story of Mohammad, as well of the heart of compassion and Gods love in Islam teachings.

Edited Thursday at 06:08 PM by Thought Art

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@LordFall … You don’t know if any historical person existed… I was attempting to be responsible to say we really don’t know the truth of these historical figures. Which, is important when considering an ancient school of thought and its recorded history. 

You’ve repeated the history I know. And, I said in this thread the audiobook I’ve been listening to already of why I felt there is something profound in the story of Mohammad, as well of the heart of compassion and Gods love in Islam teachings.

Let's go through the socratic method and epistemic process to deconstruct this. 

What makes you think he didn't exist? Do you have similar doubts on whether George Washington existed as well? 

[Thought Art]

@LordFall In general, especially with figures of over 1000 years ago, in cultures I’m not expert in… I have learned to realize all my knowledge of them is hearsay and not direct experience. 
 

Figures like George Washington are more recent. However, all history gives you is beliefs about him. You can never fully know him, or what was true about him. Though, he likely existed given what humans have told each other and our history. Normally, I would speak as if he existed without the same doubt we have for Lao Tzu or even Jesus. 
 

Mohammad, to me as I’m no historian is similar to these prophets, teachers and figures. They are so ancient to trust what any human says about them is not wise. But, I can tell the story of Mohammad that does exist as the story of Mohammad. 
 

I assume Mohammad existed all those years ago based on the history and the existence of Islam. But, what is true about him is difficult. I can study books and scholars but that is still hearsay. 
 

We can’t know for sure someone existed thousands of years ago but we can assume and generally trust history. But, we can’t know for sure even more specific details about somebody. 

This is besides the point for me in this post debating the history or Mohammad. I’m more interested in the universal teachings which Islam does indeed contain within it. 

Edited Thursday at 07:51 PM by Thought Art

[KosmicGeng]

I started to get into the Quaran with an audiobook, and see some soul interconnections, with Moses etc. and my name and just some aspects how people see me, and it's historically interesting, after raging against it and being pulled in partially public terrors out of resentment and hate, and some weird interactions after meditating etc. I like the knowledge of history, but the Quaran till now has not served me on the spiritual path, as it sort of involved a delusional love to me chatting also with Muslim girls etc. and it quickly become offensive instead of critical and objective or just even neutrally critical, and a some art I found is against Jesus, and I feel a stronger connection archetypally to Jesus & partially now Moses, after understanding the audiobook more, but somehow this was connected to earth quakes? I don't know as Jesus is typed INFJ and I am an INFJ, moving to orange/green or green/orange mbti, I found some truth but mostly from Sufis like Rumi etc. I don't really enjoy interacting with people from the Quaran, it's often more business than actually having any insight in the Truth that points to God in religion, I also bought a 50h audiobook version that I plan to meditate to in the future, a bit to get a grasp of the pointers in the language even if I don't speak it, but there are a lot of holy people in the Quaran, just looking it up and using the audiobook and Wiki helped me more then to entrench myself in the culture, as I find the culture to be mostly backwards, also technologically, but these are the issues of our times, and there are more radical influences of the islam I've meet then peaceful ones, and I harbour some bias after negative interactions with the religion itself, and the issue of culture, I wonder if it can be pointers for retreats, during retreats I could listend to some genuient practiconars, that use meditative mindfulness practices and eventually some Quaran pointers to gain state-access, to me I am mostly interested in the spiritual knowledge and history, not the dress-up culture and food culture etc. imo this causes a lot of war already, I don't like to go about religious survival, I see it's purpose, but I prefer christianity, and I also just started to get into that with audiobooks mostly, as I focus more on an agnostic point of realizing development, or even atheistic, I did not believe in God really, before I had a direct state experience, now I am very open, but I notice how the survival sneaks in, if I consume the audiobooks, anyhow my 2 cents. 

[gengar]

On 8/19/2026 at 5:47 PM, LordFall said:

@gengar

I won't be editing my comment. If you post extreme tier-lists in a heated thread—satire or not—you own the fallout. Poe’s Law exists for a reason: on a forum where people unironically champion fundamentalist regimes, satire is indistinguishable from genuine dogma until stated otherwise.

Since you want a "proper historical analysis," here is why your defense of institutional Islam's role in science still falls apart:

The "Theology vs. Science" Delusion: You claim Ibn Sina and Al-Razi were persecuted for "theology, not science." In medieval Islam, natural philosophy and theology were inseparable. When Al-Ghazali wrote The Incoherence of the Philosophers, he explicitly attacked physical cause-and-effect itself (arguing cotton burns because Allah wills it, not due to heat). Orthodoxy crippled empirical science at its root.

Imperial Logistics not equalling Religious Validation: You credit Islam for libraries and trade networks. Every expanding empire builds infrastructure, medicine, and trade out of geopolitical necessity. Crediting the religion of Islam for the Golden Age simply because it happened inside an empire is like crediting the Roman Gods for the aqueducts.

The Mu'tazilite Exception Proves the Rule: The rationalist Mu'tazilite period was a brief 9th-century anomaly enforced by state inquisitions (Mihna). As soon as political power shifted, Ash'arite orthodoxy took over, shut down independent reasoning (Ijtihad), and locked the door for centuries.

Respect for your personal journey of reasoning your way out of the religion—that takes real intellectual courage. But scientific progress occurred in friction with Islamic orthodoxy, not as its byproduct.

holy shit i didnt even read this absolute monstrosity of a post

You are so narcisistic that you really believe you are saying something insightful or true here

You're a sick slanderer

 

Edited 8 hours ago by gengar

[gengar]

@Natasha Tori Maru

Could you kindly edit his post where he slanders me by name, mentioning my username claiming I put Islam above Actualized.org

This freak is out for me and feels zero remorse for his actions and literally thinks hes above the rest and can do as he likes

Please put him in his place

[LordFall]

6 minutes ago, gengar said:

holy shit i didnt even read this absolute monstrosity of a post

You are so narcisistic that you really believe you are saying something insightful or true here

You're a sick slanderer

 

It's normal to feel upset when someone makes better points than you. It shows a true lack of intellectual integrity and weak character as a man and human being though.

Edited 8 hours ago by LordFall

[gengar]

26 minutes ago, LordFall said:

It's normal to feel upset when someone makes better points than you. It shows a true lack of intellectual integrity and weak character as a man and human being though.

i don't care about your reddit level gaslighting. You literally slandered me with false claims and you're even now trying to gaslight me calling it a "better point". You're a sick narcissist and you deserve to be called out for it. I bet you are used to gaslighting pushover types, manipulating them for your needs, also reflected in your sick drive to sleep with as many girls as possible to "live your best life". I bet when those people in your life push back on you, you also gaslight them that them being upset means you're the one who is correct.
You're the biggest narcissist on the forum bar none, and your tricks will never work on me.

Edited 8 hours ago by gengar

[gengar]

imagine slandering someone and then trying to say they have a lack of integrity. the depth of depravity.

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, gengar said:

i don't care about your reddit level gaslighting. You literally slandered me with false claims and you're even now trying to gaslight me calling it a "better point". You're a sick narcissist and you deserve to be called out for it. I bet you are used to gaslighting pushover types, manipulating them for your needs, also reflected in your sick drive to sleep with as many girls as possible to "live your best life". I bet when those people in your life push back on you, you also gaslight them that them being upset means you're the one who is correct.
You're the biggest narcissist on the forum bar none, and your tricks will never work on me.

You seem to have extremely fragile confidence and a sense of self that just collapsed when your arguments were pushed back on. Typical for sheltered religious men to have a weak mind because they are submissive to daddy religion. Pre-rationality in action in a nutshell. I pity you.

To start flipping out and painting me as narcissist once again shows your lack of intellectual integrity.

I feel like I'm arguing with a child. I'm done with you. Good luck in life little buddy. 

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 hours ago, LordFall said:

It's normal to feel upset when someone makes better points than you. It shows a true lack of intellectual integrity and weak character as a man and human being though.

Someone can have poor intellectual behaviour in an argument without it necessarily be true that they have weak character as a human being. 

It's only reasonable to infer that when it is a consistent pattern. I've not seen that from Gengar.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

This thread is turning into a shit fight. 

Stop attaching each other's character and name-calling. 

Please don't make psychological assessments about each other. 

Debate the topic.

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LordFall]

It is very on topic though. This is a discussion on Islam vs actualized.org and which value system is superior. Leo himself said that religion is for weak minded people that can't handle direct confrontation with reality and need an authority to tell them how to think. Which I think is absolutely correct. 

Look at what happened when I had a very matter of fact debate about Islam's history. He flipped out and resorted to name calling. That is anti-intellectualism and a weak ego. He was not interested in the truth, he felt his identity and religion being attacked and he lashed out. That is what someone with a weak character does.

He dmed me to edit the post which I thought was silly since why does he care that much if I tagged him on a reply? Because he has a weak sense of self as most Islamic people do since they are living in under an authoritarian religion where character development and challenging authority is discouraged.

When I told him I wouldn't he flipped out at me just like he did in the thread. He brought up my thoughts on sex why? Just me having a life outside of his religion's ideology triggered him enough to start calling me a narcissist. To me that shows extremely weak character. 

What happened when I deconstructed the original's posters points with facts and my own lived experienced? Was he happy to chat about it or did he never reply again in the thread?

What do you think would've happened if we had this discussion in an islamic country? It would've been a valuable exchange of ideas that enriches both parties or I would've gotten shot or stabbed?

Half of my family is muslim, I have lived experienced in this. One of my uncles  last year almost killed one of my other uncles for a very silly reason that escalated. 

Islam is a dangerous cult that produces cognitively deficient individuals with poor emotional regulation.

It sounds like insults but they are very matter of fact definitional terms. I didn't write out what I actually think about this user, just what I'm noticing. My actual opinion of him as a human is much worse.

This is what happens when you confront truth, people with an unintegrated sense of self get triggered. Same thing that happened on the sex thread. I still think it is valuable exercise and I refuse to be intimated or silenced by such limited people. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall