An objection to NDEs

[Meeksauce]

My main gripe with the whole "I died and went to heaven/hell" thing is that these people say they truly died, if you truly died then how did you come back? I feel like when you truly die beyond the possibility of coming back is when you would truly experience what happens after death - anything else is just a coma like state where your brain is filling in the gaps because it's saying "insert scene of what we think happens upon death"

 

I'm not saying I don't explicitly believe in NDEs, or that these people didn't experience what they experienced. A lot of them put out Oscar level performances if they are lying. For me, just the possibility of hell is enough to get me on my good side and grow my relationship with God. This is a very interesting topic for me at the moment, what are your guys thoughts on the validity of NDEs and their apparent corroborating evidence?

Edited 13 hours ago by Meeksauce

[Jirh]

10 minutes ago, Meeksauce said:

if you truly died then how did you come back?

Makes me think about existing in the first place. If we were nothing, how did we emerge?

 

[Meeksauce]

6 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Makes me think about existing in the first place. If we were nothing, how did we emerge?

 

This is a great one if you haven't seen it. My take is that in order to be the individual self you are, fully, you must be undivided and therefore can't have any memory of what happened prior to your human birth. However, when you transition out of this life back into infinity, you should theoretically remember this life because you are infinite and therefore your perspective is integrated.

 

 

[Oppositionless]

NDE experiences map really well to the Bardo as described in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Bardo is a transitory realm, not the true "afterlife." 

[Leo Gura]

NDE is a hallucination.

Death is imaginary. It does not exist.

[enchanted]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

NDE is a hallucination.

Death is imaginary. It does not exist.

As in we won't ever die and thoughts and imagery just keeps going for infinity? Or that death (as ending of experience) is only imagined since it can never be experienced? 

[enchanted]

1 hour ago, Meeksauce said:

. A lot of them put out Oscar level performances if they are lying. This is a very interesting topic for me at the moment, what are your guys thoughts on the validity of NDEs and their apparent corroborating evidence?

True they would be amazing actors if they were lying.

I find NDEs very compelling that imagery and thoughts continue after death. 

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, enchanted said:

As in we won't ever die and thoughts and imagery just keeps going for infinity? Or that death (as ending of experience) is only imagined since it can never be experienced? 

Awakening is the realization that death is imaginary.

What humans call death is actually Infinite Consciousness.

[Meeksauce]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening is the realization that death is imaginary.

What humans call death is actually Infinite Consciousness.

I'm still not taking my chances with hell haha

[Dazgwny]

The issue with NDE’s is a tricky one. I’ve no idea as quite fortunately I’ve never been close to what we call a physical death. So I’m just speculating. But the issue is, with the way dreams (nightly dreams) and memory itself works. I’ve had dreams as such where I’ve been asleep for 3 hours and experienced a dream of a complete 10 day holiday. The whole thing. But in reality what did I really witness in that dream? A time dilation? Or simply just 2/3 hours worth of actual imagery and scenes, with false memories being created to fill in the gaps? Or simply just one image of the end of the holiday, and just false created memory of the previous seeming 10 days. How does this have anything to do with an NDE? Well, when people return from their so called NDE, did they at that instance, simply slightly enter a dream state, and imagine the whole experience at that moment, not actually when they were seemingly dead? Or similarly in the moment just before it was lights out, but then return to believe it happened in that in between time? If your just sat here right now, and all that exists is this, and all memories are imaginary, which I have actually awoken to previously, which sounds completely contradictory, but it actually isn’t, then the creation of a long lasting NDE in a fraction of a second is completely plausible. I’m not saying people are lying with their NDE’s, that they never happened. I’m just making the point is that those that have had them, 99.999% of the people, have no idea what’s actually happened. And definitely the scientists that investigate them, or anyone who does, have not a clue what’s going on. I can conclude one thing for certain though, they are completely imaginary, as is everything else

[Clarence]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

NDE is a hallucination.

Death is imaginary. It does not exist.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening is the realization that death is imaginary.

What humans call death is actually Infinite Consciousness.

NDEs also involve the realization that death is imaginary. They are an awakening. People who have them realize that reality is infinite and that they will never die.

It doesn't make sense to call that a hallucination.

[Meeksauce]

49 minutes ago, Dazgwny said:

The issue with NDE’s is a tricky one. I’ve no idea as quite fortunately I’ve never been close to what we call a physical death. So I’m just speculating. But the issue is, with the way dreams (nightly dreams) and memory itself works. I’ve had dreams as such where I’ve been asleep for 3 hours and experienced a dream of a complete 10 day holiday. The whole thing. But in reality what did I really witness in that dream? A time dilation? Or simply just 2/3 hours worth of actual imagery and scenes, with false memories being created to fill in the gaps? Or simply just one image of the end of the holiday, and just false created memory of the previous seeming 10 days. How does this have anything to do with an NDE? Well, when people return from their so called NDE, did they at that instance, simply slightly enter a dream state, and imagine the whole experience at that moment, not actually when they were seemingly dead? Or similarly in the moment just before it was lights out, but then return to believe it happened in that in between time? If your just sat here right now, and all that exists is this, and all memories are imaginary, which I have actually awoken to previously, which sounds completely contradictory, but it actually isn’t, then the creation of a long lasting NDE in a fraction of a second is completely plausible. I’m not saying people are lying with their NDE’s, that they never happened. I’m just making the point is that those that have had them, 99.999% of the people, have no idea what’s actually happened. And definitely the scientists that investigate them, or anyone who does, have not a clue what’s going on. I can conclude one thing for certain though, they are completely imaginary, as is everything else

At a certain point the "how" and "when" become irrelevant, because everything is imaginary.  Just look at salvia, you can experience a million years in 5 minutes.

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Meeksauce said:

I'm still not taking my chances with hell haha

the real hell is separation from absolute love 

[Dazgwny]

@Meeksauce yes but I wanted to just put out there something without the use of psychedelics because it’s easy for people to just cast psychedelic experiences aside. Everybody can relate to dream or memory

[Juan]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Awakening is the realization that death is imaginary.

What humans call death is actually Infinite Consciousness.

Had you ever talked about reincarnation? Ok after death we go back to what we were before being born, then probably reborn as something we imagined yet again? 

[Oppositionless]

7 hours ago, Clarence said:

 

NDEs also involve the realization that death is imaginary. They are an awakening. People who have them realize that reality is infinite and that they will never die.

It doesn't make sense to call that a hallucination.

That's why I said NDE is the bardo . According to the Tibetans the bardo is a hallucination. Not a hallucination happening in a brain ofc. But a hallucination before whatever comes next. What comes next can't be imagined or conceptualized, when you lose the reference point of being an individual it's beyond description.

 

 

[Hojo]

You have to understand first person perspective. The person dies the universe ceases they see stuff and then they can just re dream the reality again.

We are all having an nde right now.

The people with nde did die and they just reconstructed reality again after.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Willy Phallicus]

Most of them are fakes and phonies.

Par for the course really.

[Meeksauce]

36 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You have to understand first person perspective. The person dies the universe ceases they see stuff and then they can just re dream the reality again.

We are all having an nde right now.

The people with nde did die and they just reconstructed reality again after.

9 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

 

It could be that NDE is just a transitory stage before the real deal. But I get what you're saying, no dreams have more reality than others.

I think whatever is manifesting reality is buried far beneath the human conscious mind. It's a terrifying thought to think that my own consciousness could potentially lock me in hell forever.

[Meeksauce]

38 minutes ago, Willy Phallicus said:

Most of them are fakes and phonies.

Par for the course really.

Of course a lot are going to be, as you said, but when someone has truly been traumatized and is sobbing their eyes out on camera that becomes much harder to fake.