Professor Dave goes off on Destiny and Israel 🇮🇱

[hundreth]

35 minutes ago, Raze said:

It doesn’t insist on the right of return, it calls for a just solution to the right of return to be negotiated. The PA already said they aren’t calling for a full right of return. 

My understanding was this is why it wasn't seriously considered. If they are in good faith not insisting on it and being reasonable, then I'm for it. I'd have to read more into it.

Quote

The Arab peace initiative is the actual two states solution in line with international law btw. The fact you’re still against it just shows the point two staters aren’t actually serious about what is needed to create two states. 

Lol, you're funny dude. Yes, because I'm under the impression they insist on right of return means that all two staters aren't serious. Genius level reasoning.

[Karmadhi]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can push it, but you should understand why those ideas will not get adopted any time soon.

Many of those leftist ideas are highly impractical and ungrounded.

The problem with leftists is that they love to moralize without understand the realities of survival.

You love to say stop the genocide, but you have no actual solution to the situation. This is like a child screaming: "Ice cream now!"

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

There is a global overall consensus the best solution is a two state solution. All non-radical global actors agree with it. It is not complicated.

Also accountability for Israel crimes just like Russia has faced accountability

No reason not to sanction Israel, they are not too cool for school

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Karmadhi

[hundreth]

13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

There is a global overall consensus the best solution is a two state solution. All non-radical global actors agree with it. It is not complicated.

Also accountability for Israel crimes just like Russia has faced accountability

No reason not to sanction Israel, they are not too cool for school

 

I wish that was the overall consensus. It seems like that has shifted towards Palestine from the river to the sea. Both far left and far right are against the two state solution.

The left accuses anyone in favor of two state to be "buying time for Palestinian ethnic cleansing." Meanwhile they push for a far less realistic and more violent one-state concept.

Edited 17 hours ago by hundreth

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

There is a global overall consensus the best solution is a two state solution. All non-radical global actors agree with it. It is not complicated.

Also accountability for Israel crimes just like Russia has faced accountability

No reason not to sanction Israel, they are not too cool for school

 

You create a Palestinian state and it will attack Israel.

[coca]

@Leo Gura From what I understand Palestine is not really capable of attacking Israel in a seriously effective way? Like it’s similiar to the 9/11 situation no? Obviously a country has to protect itself from attacks and terorrism but it can easily get emotional and go overboard. 

[Joseph Maynor]

There is something really wrong with the vibe in this video.  I actually watched the whole thing.  

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You create a Palestinian state and it will attack Israel.

The reverse is much more likely. The narrative Israel just wanted peace and was defending itself from crazy Arab aggressors is complete hasbara nonsense. 

Israeli officials themselves admitted if they were Palestinians they’d fight Israel because they would want to defend themselves from Israel’s occupation 

hundreds of thousands of Palestinian citizens live in Israel and despite facing constant racism and discrimination Israelis don’t fear them whatsoever, aside from general racial disdain. They know it’s because they don’t have reason to fight Israel like the occupied Palestinians they are trying to destroy.

Even in the West Bank under the occupation initially the population was passive for decades despite constant abuse until finally they started reacting with intifadas as it got worse.

Look at how West Bank Palestinians behaved to Israel in the last two years, Israel is openly bragging about destroying them and supporting settler pogroms every week, and they won’t even defend themselves largely.

Now compare that to Israel which is literally bombing and trying to topple other countries which have done barely anything to them which was already in response to prior aggression.

Palestinians are fighting for survival, Israel is fighting for expansion. If Palestinians could survive, they’d cease fighting.  Israel hasn't faced a serious outside threat in decades and is launching wars constantly.

Somehow decades of Israeli propaganda has created the backwards narrative the people who they are trying to destroy are the aggressors because they sometimes defend themselves (again only sometimes, most of the time they just don’t respond the content aggression), and they are the real victims while openly saying they are trying to destroy a people and actively doing it, and if you disagree will say you’re trying to destroy them. Complete projection.

Edited 16 hours ago by Raze

[Karmadhi]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You create a Palestinian state and it will attack Israel.

That is Israeli propaganda, I am suprised you actually believe it

The reason Palestinians attack Israel is because they do not have a state and not via versa

And Gaza was not a state, it was a lame excuse for a state which did not cool down the hot blood.

When a proper state gets created it will chill out the majority of the Palestinian population and the radical minority will be eventually removed from power by internal pressure.

You have said yourself Israelis have never negotiated in good faith when it comes to this issue.

Edited 3 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

13 hours ago, hundreth said:

It seems like that has shifted towards Palestine from the river to the sea. Both far left and far right are against the two state solution.

Far left and far right are not the majority of the population

Majority supports a two state

The only core difference between the left and right on this is that the left wants Israel to face consequences for its actions instead of just creating a state for Palestine

So create a State+ war crime investigations + potential sanctions

Instead of just create a State

The 1 state solution which is totally unrealistic imo is not as supported as Instagram or Tik Tok may make it appear 

"Free Palestine" to me is not 1 state but just to end the occupation and give Palestinians their own state

Edited 3 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

"Free Palestine" to me is not 1 state but just to end the occupation and give Palestinians their own state

Fair

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

That is Israeli propaganda, I am suprised you actually believe it

Israel has legit security concerns.

Giving a military to Palesatine is like handing a box of grenades to your lunatic homocidal neighbor.

You are assuming secuity. But this whole issue is about insecurity.

In typical leftist fashion you assume security.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel has legit security concerns.

Giving a military to Palesatine is like handing a box of grenades to your lunatic homocidal neighbor.

You are assuming secuity. But this whole issue is about insecurity.

In typical leftist fashion you assume security.

Yeah, I think the reasonable security concern is that much of what Palestine would be belongs on a high ground area cutting across the center of Israel which Israel literally would not be able to defend IF the Palestinians + the wider Arab world decided they wanted to. So perhaps the Palestinians wouldn't, but IF they did it would be the disastrous. 

That said, at this point it almost feels like Israel needs to accept that risk despite this reality and take a leap of faith. If that day ever comes, this would actually be a justified time for the U.S. to intervene. If Israel is actually under existential threat, they would be justified in using the full weight of their forces. The script would change.

Edited 1 hour ago by hundreth

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel has legit security concerns.

Giving a military to Palesatine is like handing a box of grenades to your lunatic homocidal neighbor.

You are assuming secuity. But this whole issue is about insecurity.

In typical leftist fashion you assume security.

Why would Palestinians attack Israel and risk suicide if they get their country?

The reason they do terrorism to begin with, is the brutal occupation and medievil siege that Israel has placed on them

If they have a legit state of their own with full autonomy, the suicidal desire will be removed

People are suicidal when they see no other alternative

It is not "typical leftist fashion" it is simple logic that you can see in other conflicts where coerced groups feel they have no other choice but do terrorism

Northen Ireland situation was also doing terrorism until the situation got resolved

Now it is no longer the case

I notice you view Palestinians as suicidal terrorist which is the way American medias tries to frame them

In reality majority are very reasonable people and only resort to terrorism when everything else has failed

If they have their own state, there will no longer be such need to attack.

Also, lets just exercise the idea that Palestine will still attack.

Is not that already happening? Do you really think a weak Palestinian state with gdp smaller than jordan will magically become an existencial threat to Israel?

I would argue the current set up is more dangerous for Israel than a Palestinian state

More Israelis have died by Palestinian attacks than by Lebanese army for example which is a state (including Hezbollah)

Some food for though

Edited 24 minutes ago by Karmadhi