FUCK COMPLIMENTS, This is what ADVANCED Flirting Looks Like! [Not for Beginners]!

[Zenterus]

@PsychedelicEagle

2 minutes ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

I see where you're coming from, and I agree with it completely. However, let me point something out. The idea of "high value" as described here mostly applies to social circles, social events, clubs, parties, etc.

Personally, I don't frequent these types of events that often anymore. The way I go about my game is by going about my life: doing sports, grocery shop, train station. If I see a hot chick who's my type I go talk to her. I then tell her what in her genuinely made me attracted and I start asking her questions, both to see if she's the type of person I'm looking for, and to learn more of her cause I'm curious.

Notice that under these circumstances being indirect is a lot harder than in nightgame. How would you approach the situaion, @Zenterus, say, a hot sports girl in the grocery shop?

Being direct here has so many benefits from my POV, among which: screen if she's taken; prevents her from wasting my time; use it as the opener; facilitates congruency in my body language; sets the frame in her mind; allows me to gauge her attraction level/openness straight away; shows that I'm confident in expressing my true intentions (this is actually a big win — requires high confidence to convey what you really feel as you know); allows me to open without screening for things to open indirectly, etc.

Also, notice that the notion of directness not being perceived as "high value" applies mostly to conventional people attending mainstream venues. People who are nonconformant, have independent thinking, and open-mindedness, are much less likely to associate unconventional behavior to "low value". So from this perspective I also get to screen a bit of her personality and values.

I'm the type of person who values systems and protocols that simplify my life.

Just wanted to point it all out so that people who want to approach game from the same angle can be confident that directness is a completely valid approach, and, IMHO, is not leaving much on the table — depending on the venue and situation where you approach.

Brother, I might give you a more in depth explanation later because right now I have somewhere to be.

What I will say, is that the advice I just gave, I mostly apply to daygame. I approach, most of the time, indirectly during the day. It works just the same.

Plus, the beauty of this approach is that it is versatile. You might meet a super cool girl who has a boyfriend but who you'd love to be friends with -- and who could introduce you to other amazing people -- but you've burned that bridge the moment you went direct. If you try to switch, she'll think that you're just trying to weasel your way into her pants. Indirect allows you to figure out what you're dealing with before deciding on a course of action.

I'll make future posts about how to navigate this approach beyond the opener, but don't forget that you're still flirting, it's just not off the open. So you'll find out if she has a boyfriend anyway, because the girl can sense the vibe you're putting out, but isn't fully certain if her assumption is correct which allows you the versatility to switch paths if you want, or even targets if you're talking to multiple attractive women.

There are so many advanced benefits to this, honestly.

[PsychedelicEagle]

25 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

I might give you a more in depth explanation later because right now I have somewhere to be.
[...]
I'll make future posts about how to navigate this approach beyond the opener

Please do. I appreciate getting a different perspective on how I could be approaching.

But being honest not sure I will agree since I feel we're approaching the problem from different values and perspectives.

I still don't see many benefits from being indirect, for the situations I approach girls. 

 

For example, often on the street or the train station the girl is walking to go somewhere. If I don't explicitly say I found her attractive it's so awkward. Why would you stop someone to comment on their dress or something else? Or ask about information for some place? It just makes setting the frame harder. As said, I value simplicity and straightforwardness.

 

Regarding:

25 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

You might meet a super cool girl who has a boyfriend but who you'd love to be friends with

If the girl has a bf, the last thing I want is her number. As a matter of fact, sometimes when I approach, they only say they have a boyfriend at the end of the interaction, when I've already pulled up my phone to get hers. And they offer to exchange numbers regardless — I always reject. I don't want no trouble with committed girls, even if I don't have bad intentions myself.

25 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

switch paths if you want, or even targets if you're talking to multiple attractive women.

This is a clear benefit indeed.

Edited 3 hours ago by PsychedelicEagle

[Emotionalmosquito]

I’m sorry but how in god’s blue marble am I supposed to just spit witty, well calibrated lines like that within seconds? My stunted ass brain works so slow it takes me upwards of half an hour just to type out a semi intelligent sounding post in comment sections or forums. In real life you’re working with mere seconds at a time and you don’t get to retract your words once they’re said. 
 

My improvised lines would come out sounding more like “Uh oh. Don’t you be a dangerous girl on me!” 🫵🏻 

Or, “Oh you like super heroes? Well you better not come at me like Gamora did to Quill when she didn’t recognize him.”

Or something like, “So you like food? We’re gonna have to change that before we start dating or else I’ll get jealous seeing you eat so easily.”

Also wtf do I do if she just stands there with the fluoride stare and gives one word answers I can’t do anything with?

Edited 3 hours ago by Emotionalmosquito

[VioleGrace]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I’m sorry but how in god’s blue marble am I supposed to just spit witty, well calibrated lines like that within seconds? My stunted ass brain works so slow it takes me upwards of half an hour just to type out a semi intelligent sounding post in comment sections or forums. In real life you’re working with mere seconds at a time and you don’t get to retract your words once they’re said. 
 

My improvised lines would come out sounding more like “Uh oh. Don’t you be a dangerous girl on me!” 🫵🏻 

Or, “Oh you like super heroes? Well you better not come at me like Gamora did to Quill when she didn’t recognize him.”

Or something like, “So you like food? We’re gonna have to change that before we start dating or else I’ll get jealous seeing you eat so easily.”

Also wtf do I do if she just stands there with the fluoride stare and gives one word answers I can’t do anything with?

Just begin with direct approach until you are comfortable enough to be indirect, 

Dont forget this is ADVANCED advise, 

To do this correctly ... To be precise TO LEARN to do this correctly you have to be able to approach women and to have a decent conversation with girls before hands, 

So begin by direct approach it is less efficient BUT IS WORKS 

When you will be confortable switch to indirect approach 

Plus you can do direct approach and work on your vibe wittyness and frame 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I’m sorry but how in god’s blue marble am I supposed to just spit witty, well calibrated lines like that within seconds? My stunted ass brain works so slow it takes me upwards of half an hour just to type out a semi intelligent sounding post in comment sections or forums. In real life you’re working with mere seconds at a time and you don’t get to retract your words once they’re said. 
 

My improvised lines would come out sounding more like “Uh oh. Don’t you be a dangerous girl on me!” 🫵🏻 

Or, “Oh you like super heroes? Well you better not come at me like Gamora did to Quill when she didn’t recognize him.”

Or something like, “So you like food? We’re gonna have to change that before we start dating or else I’ll get jealous seeing you eat so easily.”

Also wtf do I do if she just stands there with the fluoride stare and gives one word answers I can’t do anything with?

That was funny tho😂😂

Edited 1 hour ago by Sugarcoat

[Zenterus]

@VioleGrace I appreciate your support btw, brother! I'm glad you're finding value in what I share in this forum

[Zenterus]

On 09/12/2025 at 5:42 PM, Zenterus said:

Strap up, this'll be a long and powerful value bomb for your game.

If you look through my post history, you will discover that after 10 years of pickup experience, I've become quite disensitised to it all and have grown to resent the entire paradigm as it is taught.

However, after looking through this sub, I've realized that while I'm doing my dramatic exit, there are so many men who are just now entering the community and may fall victim to a lot of the misguided advice that is often given in pickup forums and other sources of dating-advice-for-men information.

So, in spirit of that, I thought that I might as well do my part in making sure that the new "gamers" dont fall into the same traps that I did while I was developing in the game and maybe ensure that the future of pickup is more holistically sound in the process (hopefully - I'm only one dude in a very niche forum, afterall)

Anyway, the first topic I want to tackle is the topic of direct game and why this is not only negatively affecting your results, but also negatively affecting the women that you meet.

Before I get to my breakdown of direct game, I first have to state the following disclaimer:

This is an ADVANCED topic. Reason being that in order to get good at pickup you have to be comfortable with your sexuality and your desires as a man. That is the foundation of all of flirting and masculine confidence. If you lack that within yourself, going direct with women and experiencing the positive reactions that you get from it, as well as the results that will come as a consequence, is a great way to prove to yourself that it is okay to be a sexual being.

However, at an advanced level, direct game is simply not the optimal strategy.

Let me explain.

1. It creates a low value dynamic

This is the ideal story: Girl meets a guy by happenstance. They engage in a very fun interaction and it becomes clear to the girl that she has very good chemistry with this guy, who also seems to be pretty cool and someone who she actually respects and admires.

Additionally, she feels a certain vibe between them that is sexual/romantic in nature but isn't sure if she's reading too much into it or if she's feeling it accurately. The guy seems flirtatious with her sometimes but then also dismissive other times, which adds to this tension. As a result, she remains fully engaged into figuring out where this is headed and becomes more and more invested as time goes on.

The more they get to know each other, the more the guy moves from dismissive, playful and indifferent to more interested and genuinemy impressed by the girl. The interaction goes from light and fun to more authentic and congruent. She feels like now they're genuinely connecting and that her initial suspicions of an underlying vibe were correct. She's aroused, she's excited, she feels the tension in the air and now she's certain he feels it too as things naturally progress into more and more intimacy.

Sounds familiar? If not, then here's a hint: This is how women typically experience a natural romantic progression with a guy who they meet through their social circle – which is where the average woman typically meets the men she dates.

The problem with going direct, is that it skips a lot of steps and can create a dynamic in which the woman isn't sure about you, yet your direct statements of interest make it clear that you are absolutely sure about her. Therefore, she's still evaluating you while you're kind of already sold on her, which is low value.

One way that PUA has found to offset this is by doing push pulls; meaning showing interest and disinterest back to back over the course of an interaction. It works very well and I definitely advocate for them. However, I do believe there's a superior way to open, specifically, that emulates more of the natural progression that fits into the romantic narrative stated above.

Emphasis: USE PUSH PULLS. They work great. This thread is mostly focused on Opening.

2. The girl has to make a decision with very limited information.

This is big.

Cold approach will forever be a number's game, no matter how good you get and how much you optimize it.

But direct game is the ultimate number's game because all the girl has to go off of is how you look and the confidence of your approach.

It's very common for guys who purely do direct game to experience 10 nos in a row before they get 1 (maybe) yes. And the funny thing is that those same 10 women who initially said 'no' to you on your approach, could've been crazy about you if you had met them in a normal social setting in which you had no romantic intentions expressed and simply got to know each other as people.

What holds guys back from realizing this is the reactions they get from direct game. If you approach a woman directly, she has an instant reaction to your boldness. She laughs, she blushes, she reacts and guys who have low self esteem or who dont have much experience with women need that positive reaction as a sign that they're doing well.

However that is a false positive and your results reflect that, if you are honest with yourself.

How much a girl laughs and is amused in the interaction has very little to do on whether or not she will want to sleep with you, date you, invest in you. All that actually matters is her perception of you and the unique chemistry and connection you share with her and if a girl rejects you within the first 5 minutes of you talking to her, you cannot establish neither of the above in a positive way.

3. Over time it can kill your reputation among women

Especially true if you live in a small city but just as valid in bigger cities as well.

The thing with cold approach pickup is that it requires a high volume of social interaction for you to get results - even if you're advanced, there will always be a numbers game element to it.

Over time - within a span of years or even months maybe - you will start encountering women who you've previously approached in the past at random locations. This could also happen in a closed environment, such as a club, where you're bound to run into the same people again (depending on where you live) either the same night or over the span of multiple nights.

Now, if you game properly, as I will explain later on, then this is perfect! You can re-approach without it being weird of awkward. However, if you're the direct burn-it-to-the-ground type of player that goes all in and shows all his cards right away, then it will result in you having an awkward reputation eventually.

Now, having a reputation isn't necessarily bad, if you know how to handle it and use it to your advantage. But I'll tell you this, for sure: Nothing turns a woman off more than when she finds out the guy who she's dating has been running around flirting and complimenting and getting rejected by the majority of women in the city.. especially when one (or a few of them) turn out to be her friends.

4. Closes the door for a more nuanced approach to game (social circle, for example)

The highest forms of game are subtle and allow you a lot of manoeuvrability.

Let's say you approach 2 really beautiful girls. Both are hot, both look good and you'd be down to actually date either one of them. But for the sake of directness you choose one of them to direct your intentions to. However, you find out that not only do you not have that much chemistry with her, but that she also has a boyfriend! On the flip side, her friend is way more interesting and engaging to talk to and she's single. What do you do?

Switch targets? You could, I've done it and had it work out. But the vast majority of the time, the girl will just feel like the backup option and reject you even though she might have been interested in you.

Alternatively, let's say that both of the women have boyfriends but they're super cool to talk to and you'd actually be down to befriend them and potentially even meet their attractive friends

By approaching them in a very direct, polarizing manner and then trying to switch to being their friend you run the risk of them perceiving you as a loser who is trying to sleaze his way into their pants through the friendzone. Again, low value.

Now don't misunderstand me; It can still work - practically anything can - but it's just way less likely.

You want to approach game in such a way that allows you to be flexible within an interaction, whether that is switching your target or the frame of the approach itself, while also maintaining a high value perception of you in the woman's eyes, and direct game isn't the optimal approach for that.

The optimal approach:

Before we get into the actual approach, let's lay down some foundational principles behind the Opening style I advocate for:

- Attraction is not a choice.

You don't have to tell a girl you like her or be overtly flirty with her for her to feel attracted to you.

If you're a cool guy, who is sexy, dominant, assertive and fun, she will get attracted to you whether you directly established that frame or not.

- Being the buyer not the seller

As established previously, the ideal story you want a woman to experience emotionally when you're interacting with her is one where she's uncertain about your interest level at first and then slowly - the more you get to know each other and the more she impresses you with her character - the more your interest grows and becomes more obvious.

That way, your interest, feels more earned and special.

- It just happened

Romance should feel spontaneous, genuine, authentic and fateful. No woman likes the idea that her was man sitting at home plotting, strategizing and pracising his approach for weeks and months on various women and she just happened to be the one who "fell for it."

Women want to feel like things just naturally came about and therefore your opening style should reflect this fantasy.

Now, one last point before I tell you the best way to approach.

I must emphasize that this post is about OPENERS.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't flirt at all or never convey your sexuality to the woman.

What I am saying is that your sexuality and intention should be gradually revealed - mostly through the vibe but also through the subtlety and implication of your verbals, which is a topic for a different day.

With those principles in mind, the best way to approach is indirect direct.

What does indirect direct mean?

It means you approach from an indirect high value frame while still maintaining your dominance and "potential suitor" vibe.

This means you should still hold strong eye contact, speak with authority and breaking rapport tonality, be expressive, be leading, etc etc. But open the interaction in such a way that doesn't immediately give away your intentions. 

This does require some creativity on your part, but lucky for you I am feeling generous, so here are some mental frames you could embody on your approach:

[] "I'm already having fun and loving life and here I am sharing it with you, just cause I felt like it."

The frame speaks for itself, but it's one predicated on you living a full life, having fun, doing cool things and on your way to live this cool llife of yours and you just felt like sharing some energy with a stranger.

I discovered this years ago when I noticed that whenever I was travelling, going to a cool ass event or coming from a badass hangout with friends, my approaches would go so much better because I would approach from a completely different frame.

Like, I'd be hanging out with friends shooting the shit, making inside jokes and such and on my way home I would just approach a girl in a very self amusing way by using one of the inside jokes I had with my friends earlier that day as an opener.

The girl would have no context for the joke and wouldn't get it, but the vibe did the talking.

So, how does that look like in practice?

One way you can actualize this frame is either by actually, you know, living a dope ass life or by doing warm up approaches with the sole intention of just being silly and having fun with the women you talk to rather than getting a result. That will eventually pop you in the zone which will make the above frame very congruent.

As a training wheel for this, try approaching a girl from the frame that she approached you and you're flattered but not really interested.

For example, "Hey excuse me. Look, I just wanted to say that I appreciate the confidence, really, Im super flattered! But I'm not looking for anything right now. You seem like a really cool girl, though. We could totally be friends. Hope you dont take it personal!"

And continue the interaction as normal.

Just for funzies. See what happens.

[] "I'm on my way somewhere, living my life, but I'm curious about something, real quick."

This is another great high value frame and, compared to the first one, its more easy to apply.

It is self explanatory, instead of going direct, you approach from a place of curiosity.

"Hey, excuse me. Im on my way to [whatever] but you look very creative and I've been meaning to meet more like minded people. Are you an artist by any chance?"

Very simple.

Of course, modify it to fit your personality and genuine interests but you can clearly see how this type of approach not only conveys your unique value system but also can potentially spark a more genuine interaction from a place of common ground interests.

Of course, to reiterate, you do have to gradually reveal your sexual interest in her through your vibe, eye contact, tone of voice, dominance, etc. Don't get stuck on the curiosity frame without switching to a more personal "I want to meet you" type of dynamic after establishing some basic rapport.

[] Teasing

Another great, playful way to open that sets up a very flirtatious dynamic without being explicit and direct about it.

Again, the frame you should be coming from is that you're already living your life and she just caught your attention by accident after catching her doing something silly or ridiculous.

I'll give you some examples below off the top of my head, but keep in mind that these should be said playfully and with positive energy:

1) You see a girl wearing all black.

"Sorry, I have to say.. you got that emo look down! Haven't seen that since the early 2000s, takes me back to the good old days. What's your band's name?"

2) You see a girl walking down the street with a very serious expression on her face.

"Excuse me.. you look like you're on your way to beat someone up and I'm here for it. Who is getting jumped? I'm ready, let's go!"

3) A girl is out with 2 of her friends who are currently talking among themselves without her

"Hey you.. *sigh* I totally feel you right now. Being the third wheel sucks. I know that feeling. Fuck your friends, we'll have a secret conversation of our own here and get them jealous ;)"

The above are merely a few of infinite examples of various frames you could embody and their applications.

You could also approach by asking for directions or to share a random experience that you just had which you just had to share with someone, or to ask for an opinion, etc.

As long as the opener falls under the principles and theory laid out here, it will successfully set the correct dynamic for a proper seduction while side-stepping all the negative aspects of the direct approach.

Now, let me be abundantly clear: Direct game still works. Especially if you're creative with it instead of going out with these lame, cliche, low effort openers such as "you're beautiful" or "you're cute."

What I'm saying here is that the direct approach just isn't optimal long term and will stagnate your potential results, if that's the only way you know how to approach women.

Hope this was helpful.

Here is an old post where I fully explain the cons of direct game