Is any of this real?

[phillyvx]

For while now about the last four months ive been dealing with panic attacks cause I thought I was in imminent danger of a heart attack. Ive never been an anxious person, always been outgoing but this led me down the first time experiencing panic, anxiety and DPDR. Turns out my heart is in great shape. The feelings have gotten better over the last few months im not in a constant state of panic and I absolutely have relaxed good moments. The thing now is that all of this has had me question the absolute fuck out of reality and what's real and what's not. There's almost like this haze im in I want to get out of and feel in touch and intact with my surroundings but constantly doubting everything. If I'll ever feel the same again, is this real, etc. Which led me looking for answers here, and on actualized YouTube channel but that even gave me more doubt and fear. Nearly everyday im questioning everything and it doesn't feel good, I understand questioning for development but I can't even enjoy my day most of the time or just be in PEACE. It's always a fear and a what if and im not sure what to do. I try just forgetting about it but I can't help but feel like Ill be at peace when its resolved. Things I hear from here like "You aren't real" "This is a dream" "The physical world is not real" "This is magic" "Consciousness is imaginary" all are driving me even more scared and I can't even get to a point where I can be relaxed and understand in a logical way. Then there's always that one jackass on here that responds to things in fragmented cryptic sentences talking in a super "spiritual" way I guess is what you would call it. It's gotten to the point where im asking for help on here now after watching videos for 12 years and Ive only posted one other time. I just want to feel at peace and connected with the world around me, this constant doubt isn't productive and I just want to be okay again. Any advice? Thanks in advance. 

[Hojo]

Its called awakening.

I would go so far as to say your panic attacks aren't from fear of heart attack the idea of heart attack comes after the panic attack is started. A sudden jolt of fear and the body says what was that and makes up a problem thats happening when whats happening is metaphysical not physical.

Edited Sunday at 07:12 PM by Hojo

[Scholar]

I just made a thread about this:

What you are describing sounds like Derealization. Essentially, the core of your ego is still intact, but your ego has withdrawn itself from some parts of your consciousness to protect itself. This is very scary because now your ego is stuck with the reality of your thoughts, while viewing your sense-perception as unreal. It's basically the worst of both worlds.

What you need to do is connect back to your sense-perception and step away from your own thoughts. Ideally you want to work with a professional because Derealization is quite a serious thing. It is called The Dark Night of the Soul in spiritual circles, although the term has been appropriated recently in the mainstream to basically just mean depression or other negative states.

If your egoic structures unfold and dissolve in the wrong order, essentially, you can end up in states that create significant uncomfort such as your describe. Step away from Leo's content for now. You need to ground yourself in sense experience.

 

Every word Leo utters is just a thought. It isn't reality, but your ego does take it to be reality. Doubting is a process of thinking, it essentially is delusional. Look at redness and simply realize it's Isness, it's indisputable existence. Sit down and try to think redness itself away with your thoughts. It will never happen. Yet, you can convince yourself that redness doesn't exist even if it's right there in your experience.

That's psychotic, and unfortunately it is how the brain operates by default. Leo's content won't help you because he is trapped in psychosis himself.

Edited Sunday at 07:13 PM by Scholar

[OBEler]

@phillyvx I would also say you are in awakening process. 

I don't know but intuitively, be in company with the fear. Let the full truth shine. 

Heart attack is ego before it dies. When it dies your heart attack will next time less big because you already know the answer. Repeat over and over until it becomes mundane. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, phillyvx said:

Things I hear from here like "You aren't real" "This is a dream" "The physical world is not real" "This is magic" "Consciousness is imaginary" all are driving me even more scared and I can't even get to a point where I can be relaxed and understand in a logical way. Then there's always that one jackass on here that responds to things in fragmented cryptic sentences talking in a super "spiritual" way I guess is what you would call it. It's gotten to the point where im asking for help on here now after watching videos for 12 years and Ive only posted one other time. I just want to feel at peace and connected with the world around me, this constant doubt isn't productive and I just want to be okay again. Any advice? Thanks in advance. 

You should understand that all those ideas are just ideas and honestly, in my humble opinion are wrong. 

Defining reality as unreal or as a dream from within reality is absurd. I've been where you are and I wondered: are they metaphors? Do these people know what they're talking about? Is it really as they say? I also used to do psychedelics brutally, hundreds of times taking very high doses. Sometimes I'd do 5-MeO, the next day mushrooms, the next day DMT, two, three, even four days a week, constantly breaking my mind, and hearing all that talk about illusion and dreams.

Forget all that; it's meaningless. The point here is to leave the level where things are named and enter the level where things simply are. To delve deeply into yourself without definition, without a map, into the reality that is now. What we seek is to free the mind from its limitations, not to create new ones. In case of doubt, just think: nothing means nothing, and relax. You are, that's everything. 

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall this waking reality is a floating image hold in consciousness, located nowhere, outside is nothing. Thats litteraly a dream. Have you never seen that on your trips?

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, OBEler said:

@Breakingthewall this waking reality is a floating image hold in consciousness, located nowhere, outside is nothing. Thats litteraly a dream. Have you never seen that on your trips?

I saw that hundred of times same that being god etc, all that are just ideas, means absolutely nothing.

This reality is, I am, and nothing else means absolutely nothing. If you open yourself to the absolute fact of being, you are open to everything. Your heart is open, your mind is unlimited, no boundaries, no definitions, no structures, just what is , what you are, the totality that is , period. 

What you have to do is an action, not a realization. A realization happens.to you, the action of openess is something that you do and doing so that you become, that you are. You are open, you are the openess, the unlimited. To see is to be, the subject must become the object. And the structure must disappear. No God , no dream, no consciousness, just being absolutely open without frontier. Some courage is needed, the mind will try to grab some grips, like dreams and that

[LordFall]

@phillyvx I've answered your questions here, please read it I think it'll makemore sense to you than most of the replies on this post that are more woo woo or complicated. 

@Scholar I don't think Leo is trapped in psychosis, what makes you say that? I think he sometimes lack empathy and doesn't understand the stand of mind most poeple on this forum and watching his video have a different mind and life experience than his and thus the content he shares can be quite dangerous.

This video does address it a bit but I don't think he does an adequate job of explaining psychosis and the problems of Depersonalization-Derealization Disorder. Probably because he hasn't had too many issues with it himself but I have had a quite traumatic psychotic episode that I claim responsability for but in large part came from watching Leo's content and I know a lot of others have had bad experiences as well. 

Leo is just a guy though and he got into self-development and made a brand out of it and shared his findings. That's why Guru label is dangerous as that's a lot of responsability to put on one man. I do still think that when you start to vouch for psychedelics and telling people they are God and life is an illusion then psychosis episodes start to become your top concern and you must take responsability to inform an audience about it, give warning signs of it and grounding mechanisms otherwise it can lead to mental illness, injury and death.

Edited 13 hours ago by LordFall

[OBEler]

@LordFall Can you elaborate, you got a traumatic psychotic episode just from watching leos content? No psychedelics involved? Can you explain how it happenend and what happened after?

[LordFall]

No psychedelis but I was smoking concentrated weed at the time often so that pried my mind wide open for sure. I was watching a lot of Leo content at the time and I specifically remember the Devil video and my psychosis started on a blood moon and it was brought about by a concept I just learned about recently aberrant salience. That's where your mind overthinks pattern recognition(which is enhanced when high on weed) and that lead to me going full blown psychotic, dropping my ID down the street and feeling I needed to be naked before God so walking back home naked lol. I remembering hearing demonic voices and thinking that I had switched to the demon realm and I wanted to kill myself to escape it. I actually stabbed my brother in this state and ended up in jail for months because of it. A psychosis is very strange, it's like a psychedelic trip but you are now sober and it lasts for a long time mine lasted for about 2 weeks. For me it combined all kind of strange ideas I had with the real world like I sort of saw dead people and thought of myself as a mix of Darth Vader and Jesus and saw pyramids outside of my jail cell. I need to get my police file it must be so hilarious. I remember pissing in the corner of the interrogation room, I don't exactly remember why though but it had some sort of psychotic logic to it. 

I don't blame Leo for it, it's my mind and my life but I wish he had been more thorough for warning against psychosis and delusions, to me at the time it felt like awakening and having my divine powers. I remember trying to read a book in the dark and thinking I could just absord knowledge so much faster this way and that it was silly that people read books normally. I'm a bit of an extreme case, only something like 1% of people in psychosis become violent during it. My brother is fine and we get along for those wondering but it was not a great time in my life, I stayed in jail for like 2 months(for the first 2-3 weeks I was psychotic which without the hurting my brother part was kind of fun didn't feel like jail.) Real jail is boring and the people are super weird they often frame check you, it is really the most confrontational and impulsive portion of men that there is. I got bail after like 2 months and then was on probation and after like 1 year I got sentenced to the lowest possible sentence of 90 days of weekend jail(the crown was fighting it for months wanting to send me in for at least 6 more months but on the day off negotiated with my lawyer as they apparently do that depending on the cases of the day they collude which to take seriously and which to throw.) Also well I had no prior convictions and I'm a calm and well spoken guy so that helped my case. The guy at the forensic assesment center said he's the most polite patient he's ever met lol. 

Weekend jail was not too bad but annoying too because it gives you a lot anxiety each week for 15 weeks. A lot of the dudes in there had the same story they were mostly in for anger issues or for auto theft theft. Real jail was much worse, I met actual murderers and rapist. I still actually can't go to the US, I have been dying to go to Miami for so long. This happened in 2017 so I think next year I can get it expunged from my record and go check out the land of the free. 

All this to say be careful of playing with substances that open the mind and even in general I know of like 4 friends that also had psychosis outide of Leo's content, it's very common with psychedelics or the high THC weed they sell today. I think grounding mechanisms are so important as well as understanding the concepts like aberrant salience and delusions. It's common for people to start hearing voices and being able to talk yourself out of it is so important. Some people never recover and are gone forever. 34% of people that experience weed induced psychosis get lifelong Schizophrenia out of it. 

Mind altering substances are dangerous but I also do agree to this day that they are amazing when experienced the right way. I've done psychedelics many times since then and last year did some 5-meo-dmt for the first time. I have some anxiety in recommending them to other people for some obvious reasons though. I had another more minor psychosis in 2023 but that one didn't really have any consequences I just freaked out my roommates and got booked into a psych ward. That one was fun I had access to my phone and watched Leo's video on solipcism and stage turqoise again while half psychotic. Idk exactly what to make of it but I like the quote the mystic swims in the waters the schzihoprenic/psychotic drowns in. 

When I see posts like this where homeboy claims that you cannot hurt anyone and it's all in your head(which makes no sense clearly everyone is experiencing reality from their own perspective then we can all hurt eachother. Unless someone is really silly in their thinking and doesn't admit that we clearly influence eachother in all kinds of ways, who built the roads and buildings? I sure as fuck didn't. Solisistic delusions are dangerous. Even if they are ultimately probably true and we are all one, you can still fuck up your subjective life pretty bad. I would honestly encourage all of you mods to be very careful with the things that some of the users say on this forum and push back more, as someone who's faced the consequences personally it is quite concerning for me to read. 

I was in this specific room, Calgary Corretional Center in Calgary Alberta.

Edited 21 hours ago by LordFall

[OBEler]

@LordFall Oh man, what a story! Thanks for your report now I can imagine how you can get into such a space.

[cetus]

@phillyvx I remember having my first glimpse of truth and it was quite unsettling. But then one day I realized reality hadn't changed one bit.  What did change was the way I viewed it.

[LordFall]

18 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@LordFall Oh man, what a story! Thanks for your report now I can imagine how you can get into such a space.

You're welcome. Hopefully it helps yourself and others avoid painful experiences.

4 minutes ago, cetus said:

@phillyvx I remember having my first glimpse of truth and it was quite unsettling. But then one day I realized reality hadn't changed one bit.  What did change was the way I viewed it.

This is a cool way to look at it and ground yourself. That's the gift of a psychical reality, if becoming more conscious would change it too much then we couldn't appreciate greater insights as it would ruin materialism. You can still have sex, make money, take a walk in the park, chill with your boys and have meals with your family. 

[MediumKahuna]

@LordFall Glad you're better now. Smoking weed in my adolescent years brought out strong paranoia and depersonalization for quite some time, though luckily I never had violent psychosis like you had. Sometimes you need to ground yourself, step back, chill and enjoy life, regardless of if it's a dream or whatever it is. From my personal experience as someone with fairly hardcore depression my whole life, nihilism/solipsism is basically a poison which will engulf your mind if you let it.

Edited 7 hours ago by MediumKahuna

[Scholar]

22 hours ago, LordFall said:

@Scholar I don't think Leo is trapped in psychosis, what makes you say that?

Not in the clinical sense, I was being a bit cheeky. He basically still hasn't properly distinguished thoughts from reality, or rather dissolved the illusiory sense of reality.

I say this because it is transparent to how attached he gets to various thoughts he has about reality, or things like believing he was an alien and learned an alien language. Psychedelics tend to reinforce the confusion between thoughts and reality because the experiences are so intense the egoic sense of reality gets hijacked by it.