Most Dating Books/Teachers Aren't Exceptional

[Terell Kirby]

36 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you enjoy the sex if you’re in the back of your mind holding an agenda?

The agenda is fulfilled once sex is procured. Everything leading up to it is a subtle form of manipulation to get what you want in the bedroom 

[AION]

7 hours ago, Valach said:

But the men are just as immature and shallow as woman so I do not understand why we highlight it in woman?

Exactly that is what I said. Humans are shallow thus women are shallow too. I think it is disgusting taht @Miguel1 is trying to throw me under the bus here just because he fancies some female members here on this nerd forum. Obviously women won't be attracted to an intellectual forum. If Miguel fancies more females I think some child rearing forum might be more appropriate for him. 

At the end I can reframe my message but I won't refrain from telling the truth. If that causes me to be banned by some weirdo, I'm fine with that. You guys take this forum way too serious which comes off as creepy. 

This forum should aim at being SD Teal/Turqiouse and not be trapped in the SD green social justice swamp.

[Miguel1]

@AION I am not throwing you under the buss. It just oozes off of you that you lack respect.

[AION]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

@AION I am not throwing you under the buss. It just oozes off of you that you lack respect.

I think you don't show respect for free speech. 

So tell me

Why can I say "humans are shallow" or "men are shallow" but why can't I say "women are shallow"?

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Men are shallow - sexist.

Women are shallow - sexist.

Humans are shallow - not discriminatory in a targeted way against a group.

We make assumptions if we think moderating sexism against men doesn't happen here. It does.

[Yimpa]

52 minutes ago, AION said:

I think you don't show respect for free speech. 

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7-guidelines/?_fromLogin=1

Quote

This is not a free-speech zone and we will definitely "censor" you and ban you if your presence here drags down the overall quality of the forum.

----

I’ve fallen for this trap, too. Convincing myself I can say or do anything I want. I was wrong! I was posting high all the time in the past and was on my high horse! 

The quality of my posts, mind, and thinking have vastly improved when I surrendered and took the whole into consideration.

Edited 8 hours ago by Yimpa

[VioleGrace]

10 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

I can sense something building up between some guys on the forum and Natasha.

i dont think that it is natasha per se,

A lot of people here don't do the work to really think about what they are posting, 

When someone like you or leo or zenetsu and other say that "women they are dating are shallow and game is shallow too ..." i can understand that is from experience and that you are not making generalisation or assumption there and you can clearly put just nuances in you speech and thinking 

But a lot of peoples here are just purely biased and are just repeating some red pills points they fumbled into, it is so clear that they have no deep thinking into their post and no deep experience in women too and no deep thinking into them neither, they are just brainwashed and self deceived about these topic, there is no nuance is there comment 

So of course when natasha try to get them accountable and think about the BS they are mindlessly spouting they get defensive cause they ego want them to think that they are right

And that is just more obvious with Natasha cause she is calling out these types of comment when more often than others

That's what i feel when i see the exchanges anyway  

 

Edited 7 hours ago by VioleGrace

[Alexop]

9 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Overall I think it has gotten better - especially over the last 3 years. 

There's some more fucked up rhotoric that irritates me, but not enough to impact my day - I want no sympathy: 

Women here are maligned for being emotional, feelings based. Unable to make proper decisions because "corrupt emotions" and never using intellect to make decisions with love - and generally just being painted with this frame of femininity "emotional, feeling, expressive, empathic, nurturing" etc. all well and good.

Then there is a secondary dialogue of endless whinging and complaining that women don't use their head, aren't intellectual with decisions, aren't truthful. Work based off feelings etc. that we need to use rationality more. Be more forthright and honest.

And then...

"I am not attracted to masculine women, only feminine. Strong feminine polarity" but also don't be stupid and be in the feelings, also you need to be rational and intellectual like a man. But also don't be like a man because I won't be attracted to you. Pretzel yourself into impossible shit for me.

I don't get it. 

Very well framed! We guys do a poor job integrating women in our circles. I might´ve also said stuff that landed badly for women here. Sorry if so!

IDK what to say about this stuff that very mature women are unattractive, because somehow they are masculine. I know that even Leo said it, but I don´t really experienced it in real life.

Developed women can turn their masculinity and femininity on and off, like a superpower. Like: now I lead, now I follow. In fact nowadays, I meet more mature women than men. They are playful and fluid but also smart and logical when it is required. Never felt like loosing attracton when they challenge me with a more "mature" masculine vibe. It is like a shit test. If i pass it, I win their respect and they chill out in their feminine side and all good. If they constantly challenge my lead because they want to actually lead, that is something else. Those women are either not for me or not as "mature" as it seems.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Alexop

[Atmos]

On 16/07/2026 at 6:32 AM, BlessedLion said:

One of the funniest things I learnt from him is role framing and frame racing. He mentions them without giving them a certain name, so i call them that. But essentially, there are high-value conversational roles like teaser, decider, objector, evaluator, obstacle-maker, leader. And because pre-framing (setting a frame) is much easier than reframing (changing an existing frame) you basically want to get there first. 

 

This is a nice list, it summarises the roles that one would see played out at a good party from both genders.

Is female pick up even a thing? :b

People shoot their shot to varying degrees of success, and despite the temporary mental discomfort, the world is a better place for all of peoples attempts to make a connection.
 

There is a minority that lean towards 0 empathy that do a lot of damage in general for sure, I’d guess that “group” leans more male but I don’t know. 

Theories on why people “click” are attempting to simplify a 3d picture with a 2D diagram, you might identify consistent correlations but what’s really at work is incredibly deep down.

It’s not to do with me but any girl moderating an online forum that’s diving into pick up is in a naturally high friction position, it sounds pretty frustrating, that’s congruent with bringing high value controversies which are a net gain unless it’s draining you too much.

[Alexop]

9 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Thanks for sharing your honest opinions. I would not want you to step down as a moderator. It would be a big loss for us all.

As a man, who spent majority of his adult and teenage life, surrounding myself with girls, I view girls in many ways, way more intelligent than men.

Especially here in Finland, our men are autistic as hell, whereas the women thrive here. Sanna Marin (female) for example, holds the title of the youngest prime minister of Finland.

We are truly one of the leaders in stage Green development.

And the women here are the ones pushing leftist and green values, whereas the men here are way more on the right and hold onto traditional values. They are way more racist and homophobic.

Women are the ones that are more educated here, and in general, they are way more human and empathetic in their approach and intelligence - that’s why I have deep respect for them. My best friends have pretty much all been my ex girlfriends.

All that being said, I have also seen how girls chase after the worst degenerate scums. I have seen how they fall head over heels and lose all intelligence and sense making for the charismatic assholes.

I have seen first hand how my results with women significantly drops, the more I treat them with love, respect and empathy. So even if their normal intelligence (at least emotional and people) is relatively high, compared to the males here, their attraction mechanisms seems to be completely stuck in the past - and it hasn’t evolved and caught up really at all.

Same in Sweden. This is why I am like "HUUh?" when I hear people whine about women being immature. Women are substantially better at almost anything(except maybe programming and engineering/construction shit) than men here. Men don´t properly develop in these scandinavian nanny societies. 

We just have to verfy for ourselves everything. It is very tempting to just believe Leo, and I think his short comments here about women and more are making people to form wrong opinions, including myself. I won´t believe anyone saying something about this topic without tons of proof anymore.

Edited 6 hours ago by Alexop

[Alexop]

8 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Respect for women is a must, Leo has said this plenty of times. This forum is largely male from what I can tell- and when you get a bunch of horny men on an online forum, it never goes well- easily leads to misogyny. Grateful for all mods and others who hold the forum to a higher standard.

Yes but if you frame it like: "women are shallow and immature but you still have to respect them"... on a philosophy forum, that leads into treating them in a special way, which is kind of suboptimal. Because then women here would be like: "yeah, I am a woman, they know that and they just hold themselves back". 

The thing is that I don´t really experience this shit in my real life. IDk where you guys spend your time but I meet many mature women and many immature men. Women who understand advanced shit like social constructions but also being soft and feminine. Women who trust my lead, women who surprise me with very intelligent remarks, even philosophical remarks... the only suboptimal thing I observe them doing is not properly filtering through men and picking a good one in an efficient way. Although that can be challenging and I might be wrong.

Immature people are immature. Women being less autistic and socialized towards consensus, if immature, they will be drawned towards toxic femininity and wokism. Men if immature, because they are more autistic and socialzed towards competition and hierarchy worship, they wil be drawned towards right wing extremism and libertarianism.

Just because we have an autistic paradigm bias and a woman comes here with another perspective, does not make her immature and us more "mature". I see lots of paradigm locked men who whine about women being paradigm locked lmao.

Edited 5 hours ago by Alexop

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

The agenda is fulfilled once sex is procured. Everything leading up to it is a subtle form of manipulation to get what you want in the bedroom 

I was thinking that when I wrote the response actually, sort of how that’s the idea, that the “disconnect” will just disappear each time you get what you want 

[Alexop]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay. What should I change?

I think your short comments about controversial topics can be harmful. They remained imprinted in my brain and made me rethink my reality. Comments like: "women should leave this shit aside and just be cute"; "women just won't accept they are wrong" etc..

I think when you make such bold claims, they have to be done in a long video, not short comments. With lots and lots of disclaimers, nuances and "but Leos".

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Alexop said:

I think your short comments about controversial topics can be harmful. They remained imprinted in my brain and made me rethink my reality. Comments like: "women should leave this shit aside and just be cute"; "women just won't accept they are wrong" etc..

I think when you make such bold claims, they have to be done in a long video, not short comments. With lots and lots of disclaimers, nuances and "but Leos".

Okay. Fair point.

[Miguel1]

Leo also recently called women shallow (if I recall correctly), within the past 48 hours. The same thing that made Natasha gave a clear and strong warning to AION, without the ability to discuss it with her.

And yes, Leo also did undo the warning points given by Natasha.

This is directly and indirectly dismissing Natasha’s feelings about the issue.

Edited 4 hours ago by Miguel1

[Alexop]

10 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Leo also recently called women shallow (if I recall correctly), within the past 48 hours. The same thing that made Natasha gave a clear and strong warning to AION, without the ability to discuss it with her.

And yes, Leo also did undo the warning points given by Natasha.

This is directly and indirectly dismissing Natasha’s feelings about the issue.

Good one. I somehow get it but it still is a problem. When he comes with that claim, he might have a very nuanced take on it. But It is a problem because when another guy who trusts him sees that short comment, he will take it as it is, black and white, without the hidden nuances. And he will parrot it further ideologically, dealing damage.

[Miguel1]

9 minutes ago, Alexop said:

Good one. I somehow get it but it still is a problem. When he comes with that claim, he might have a very nuanced take on it. But It is a problem because when another guy who trusts him sees that short comment, he will take it as it is, black and white, without the hidden nuances. And he will parrot it further ideologically, dealing damage.

Yes, as you said, Leo throws a lot of these short comments confidently that comes across as ”it’s simple as this, period” -feeling - especially in the ’what attracts women’ space.

Which is understandable, when the women here feel like they are being devalued.

It’s almost like someone said that Leo has gone mad very confidently. Has he? Yes he has by any normal mind’s standard.

But that's just the half truth. By the standards of what we do here, he has turned sane! More conscious.

Edited 4 hours ago by Miguel1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Miguel1 @Alexop what you raise is part of the type of rhetoric around women that Leo uses that, when read in isolation, can appear quite damning.

A statement might be made that is quite absolute 'Women operate purely via emotions, and will just follow their emotions' (just an example) in one post. Some back and forth might ensue and only then is nuance added when there is pushback, or extensive questions.

Most people don't read entire threads. I think with Leo (I cannot be sure) he dives for the closest statement to the total truth of the matter in simple easy soundbites. But without context the meaning can be totally different - and these topics are some of the most nuanced there are.

I get that women will be spoken about in an isolated way especially regarding viewing through the lense of the pickup paradigm. But most of the qualities that are denigrated are assigned to women here - when it's usually very loosely tied to sex and there is little evidence to suggest as such. Biology has an impact for sure, but conditioning is a large factor. 

Women and men make decisions based on emotions. It's not women more. It's human. If you look into studies regarding what happens to people who lose their feelings/emotional centres of the brain, it is shown they cannot make the simplest of  decisions because our entire value and preference system is from the emotional centre. Antonio DiMaggio's work showcases this. Painting women as purely emotional and making decisions based on 'irrationally' framed emotions is just one common talking point perpetuated on these forums. In reality all humans make decisions based on emotions that form values and preferences. The veneer of rationally is only applied to men in these conversations - often through rationalising an emotional decision and bypassing the emotional root entirely. So I don't think it's often intentionally spoken about this way. It can be entirely unconscious. I give the benefit of the doubt always. And these conversations are usually in the context of attraction - easy to misunderstand what is being said and apply it to women in all arenas! When women do choose with rationality it is often painted in a negative manner regarding standards. While this can be negative when taken too far, it is consistently framed this way.

The qualities attributes to women are spoken of in a lowly, less than manner. I'm trying to think how often I see women spoken of with a lot of esteem or celebrated for their traits here. It does happen - there are a few members who are so consistently lovely about it. But it is a minority. 

Regarding AION's comments - that is a systemic, contextual issue arising from belief systems based on cognitive bias.

I never face any sort of issues like this in real life. I believe it is a chronic online issue with individuals when attempting to rationalise everything down to a simple explanation. And also - sorry to say it, but there is a level of conformity surrounding this topic on these forums. I don't think humans can be understood through rationality as easily as is painted.

Overall I accept everyone is moving through different stages of life and understanding. And let's be frank, this forum is mostly male dominated. I think some level of unconscious sexism is just going to happen. And that's cool, I accept it 

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Miguel1]

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes, hence I brought this up to give it integrity.

If this community wasn’t about truth, then I wouldn’t care as it would be very male biased. But I hold us to a higher standard, because truth is one of our top values here.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Miguel1 said:

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes, hence I brought this up to give it integrity.

If this community wasn’t about truth, then I wouldn’t care as it would be very male biased. But I hold us to a higher standard, because truth is one of our top values here.

100% 

I think this sex is possibly one of the most difficult and challenging topics to approach earnestly.

But yeah this is also why I take users in good faith, unless there is a real systemic repeated pattern of uncharitable dialogue.