Curt Still Lost in Concepts

[AtmanIsBrahman]

When you come across a video with this title, you expect it to be somewhat profound.
 

 

Unfortunately, Curt spends the entire video talking about conceptual abstractions attempting to define existence— which of course is impossible. He treats the subject as if it’s some kind of academic debate that we’ll eventually find the answer to, if only we refine our conceptual abstractions well enough. But Existence is first order, so it’s impossible. 

I recommend watching this video to see how the rationalist mind confuses itself. It’s honestly sad to see that this is the state of philosophy and science in the 21st century. This underscores the need for big picture thinking, openmindedness, nonconformity, etc. — basically what Leo teaches. Otherwise philosophy becomes a joke. 

[Carl-Richard]

"You're lost in non-concept". Or perhaps that's an overgeneralization? Maybe it's not that simple? Maybe you just focus on different things but you can recognize the same lesson to a fundamental extent. Curt is painfully aware of non-duality, he has interviewed Gura, Spira, etc.

Abstractions do give you some things, as limited as they are, they are more than simply non-concept alone (more than non-concept without it). "Lost in x" is a judgement (and maybe a particularly harsh one), the very concepts you want to question.

If you talk to Curt, he will give you his take, his take on non-concept, and it will not be entirely captured by the judgement, even if it's accurate. And as harsh judgements often go, they can be prone to being inaccurate. They tend to stem from some charged place, not from clear seeing, not from clear engagement, but entrapment in some limited view.

Non-duality is not that special, non-duality is not very obscure. You have quite mainstream people, Alex O'Connor, Nick Fuentes, talking about it on multiple occasions. Some people just go to something else because it's in a sense quite simple and you can do many other things with your mind. Sure, you can deepen your non-dual 'understanding' and embodiment. That's a valid way to refining one's connection to reality.

But it's not the only way, and again, people focus on different things. But don't necessarily judge them as "lost", perhaps they are as painfully aware of their limitations or more than you (although you do gain a kind of advantage by being on the outside of something, some distance. But that also goes the other way. Maybe you're too "lost"/immersed in the non-dual to recognize the validity and landscape of concepts).

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Non-duality is not special, non-duality is not very obscure. You have quite mainstream people, Alex O'Connor, Nick Fuentes, talking about it on multiple occasions.

That doesn't mean they have any clue what it is.

Nonduality has become a watered down buzz word. Most people using this word have no idea how radical true nonduality is.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That doesn't mean they have any clue what it is.

Nonduality has become a watered down buzz word. Most people using this word have no idea how radical true nonduality is.

Does Curt not have "any clue" what it is?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Does Curt not have "any clue" what it is?

I doubt he does.

But I haven't followed him lately.

Just based on what I know of him, he has not transcended the academic paradigm, which means no serious God will be realized.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

It is interesting how we are trained to talk this way in University.  

[LordFall]

For me understanding the difference between a complex and a complicated system is key to understanding reality. A complicated system has many rulesets that once understood although a difficult task will make the system as a whole predictable and you can conceptually understand the whole thing. A complex system has emergent properties and is actually an ever evolving concept so it doesn't matter how well you map it, you will never fully grasp it. 

As an INTP I like to build systems that work against reality and I was always shocked that it seems to always elude me but by understanding that the very nature of reality is an ever evolving system and by virtue of being an agent of the system my mind is not wide enough to grasp it then paradoxically I feel much more at peace with it and understand it deeper. 

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I doubt he does.

But I haven't followed him lately.

Just based on what I know of him, he has not transcended the academic paradigm, which means no serious God will be realized.

This is so sad. I mean, He took with you 7 hours interview. He took psychedelics, he had mystical experiences. He is open minded. And still...

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

He is open minded.

Not nearly openminded enough to understand Consciousness.

He is too cowardly to reach GOD. He is not willing to deconstruct science. He still thinks science understands anything.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not nearly openminded enough to understand Consciousness.

He is too cowardly to reach GOD. He is not willing to deconstruct science. He still thinks science understands anything.

I think you have to be more precise when you criticize science, surely you don't have a problem with the actual scientific method since you seem to use it yourself for your findings. Academia and big science is different than the core premise of making hypothesis and testing them, that part is pretty bulletproof. I think mainstream science gives you limited option as to what type of questions you're even allowed to ask which severely harms the quality of findings they can reach. 

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, LordFall said:

surely you don't have a problem with the actual scientific method

SCIENCE IS HALLUCINATION.

Science has no reality at all for me. To me science is childish.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Opulence]

Maybe he is suffering an existential crisis. That's when rumination steps in.

He is simply ruminating like an academician.

 

[Someone here]

I think it’s just his profession..which is physics and mathematics..he is not a spiritual teacher or a spiritual seeker .

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I think it’s just his profession..which is physics and mathematics..he is not a spiritual teacher or a spiritual seeker 

Yeah, but he is trying to understand Existence.

Understanding Existence is spirituality. Existence is God. Existence is Divine.

He barked up an Infinite tree.

I offered to personally help him Awaken. He refused. He would be Awake by now if he listened to me.

I can't save you guys from yourselves. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but he is trying to understand Existence.

Understanding Existence is spirituality. Existence is God. Existence is Divine.

He barked up an Infinite tree.

I offered to personally help him Awaken. He refused. He would be Awake by now if he listened to me.

I can't save you guys from yourselves. 

Obviously he must have a pretty good understanding of the basics of spirituality ..ontology.. and Epistemology.  He interviewed you ..Rupert Spira ..Noam Chomsky..Robert Lawrence Kuhn and others . And he engaged with you at the same level of your own worldview and asked curious questions. Maybe as you say he has fallen into the academic trap .

Edited 3 hours ago by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Obviously he must have a pretty good understanding of the basics of spirituality ..ontology.. and Epistemology.

No! Not at all.

Interviewing me counts for nothing.

He never understood me. My words went in one ear and out the other.

You can't understand what I'm talking about by interviewing me for 7 hours. LOL.

Quote

Maybe as you say he has fallen into the academic trap .

He hasn't fallen into it. He was born and raised in it, like fish in water.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He would be Awake by now if he listened to me.

You don’t know that. Each individual’s path is unique and mysterious.

And if he refused, he couldn’t have not refused.

[Davino]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nonduality has become a watered down buzz word. Most people using this word have no idea how radical true nonduality is.

Part of what makes your work unique is showing that oneness is another facet of Awakening. 

There's a bias towards certain facets like no self, nothingness but many others are widely unknown.

[Davino]

Epistemology at the end is always unsatisfying.

I'm reminded of this story:

One day, Augustine was walking along the seashore, deeply absorbed in trying to understand the mystery of the God.

As he walked, he noticed a small child who had dug a little hole in the sand. The child kept running to the sea filling his hands with water, and pouring the water into the hole.

Augustine smiled and asked, "What are you doing?"

The child replied, "I'm going to pour the entire ocean into this little hole."

Augustine answered, "That's impossible. The ocean is far too vast to fit into such a small hole."

The child then looked at Augustine and said:

"And it is even more impossible for your finite mind to contain the infinite mystery of God."

Saint Theresa of Avila once said:

Whoever has God lacks nothing.

God alone is enough.

 

Till then only mind gymnastics are being performed. Once the Infinite is encountered, then everything make sense, from total darkness to total understanding in a flash. Then you are on an Infinite Journey.

Edited 2 hours ago by Davino

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Davino said:

Part of what makes your work unique is showing that oneness is another facet of Awakening. 

There's a bias towards certain facets like no self, nothingness but many others are widely unknown.

Yes, but it goes deeper than that.

Enlightenment is not God-Realization even.

Enlightened people do not understand God.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura