How do NDEs fit into Leo's framework?

[cistanche_enjoyer]

I've watched and read several reports of NDEs, and one thing they all have in common, is that the person dying becomes what I can best describe as a "point of awareness with 360 degrees vision" that can move anywhere in space and time and other dimensions.

Now, in Leo's framework and based on some of his videos I watched, there is either this limited ego self; or the Real Self, Infinite Consciousness. But what about this point of awareness that people talk about in NDEs? It seems like something in between. Is there like an intermediary step between ego consciousness and full-on God consciousness? Could we call it a soul? What is it really?

[Hojo]

@cistanche_enjoyer Where your head is is the illusion ego. When you detach from it you realize that reality is happening inside of a conciousness thats outside of the body in reality. So if you close your eyes right now and imagine something and open your eyes and look at reality, both those things are happening in the same spot. So the black space (ego) goes away and you realize you are the room. The room isnt thinking about anything.

You are the room making up a black space and talking to itself.

Like all that exists is a curtain of reality and you are that curtain making up that its the audience.

Edited Tuesday at 07:45 PM by Hojo

[Michal__]

I happen to have a friend who's very awake, Buddha/Jesus like, who experienced all of that and he says it depends on your level of awakening & baseline consciousness so yeah, NDEs are true but for the Buddhas and Jesuses of the world it's different - a kind of formless immortality.

I have experienced thousands of OBEs myself and I still have no direct experience of what happens after death - NDEs are different.

[cistanche_enjoyer]

13 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

I happen to have a friend who's very awake, Buddha/Jesus like, who experienced all of that and he says it depends on your level of awakening & baseline consciousness so yeah, NDEs are true but for the Buddhas and Jesuses of the world it's different - a kind of formless immortality.

I have experienced thousands of OBEs myself and I still have no direct experience of what happens after death - NDEs are different.

Thanks for sharing! Where are you and your friend from?

By the way another thing that's almost always present in NDE reports is a deep sense of immense, universal Love. This is what makes me believe that the reports are real, as I had myself very profound awakenings to Infinite Love. I have not yet experienced formless awarness that can move through space and time though.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

the person dying becomes what I can best describe as a "point of awareness with 360 degrees vision" that can move anywhere in space and time and other dimensions.

That is God.

As I have said, death is God.

[Clarence]

@Leo Gura Have you ever read or listened to testimonies of people who've had near-death experiences?

[cistanche_enjoyer]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is God.

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Isn’t God fully unbiased and without attachments? Why would God think about that?

[LordFall]

Bro you aren't really thinking about it. If you accept that you are God and thus infinity then there are infinite possibilities possible. Think about it INFINITE POSSIBILITIES. You being a floating POV is like a very limited version of infinite possibilities. 

4 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Isn’t God fully unbiased and without attachments? Why would God think about that?

God has access to all attachments and all the bias in the world. Why would spending a few hours floating as an attached consciousness invalidate that? 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Clarence said:

@Leo Gura Have you ever read or listened to testimonies of people who've had near-death experiences?

A bit.

5 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Then it wasn't full death. Hence "near" death experience.

Quote

Isn’t God fully unbiased and without attachments? Why would God think about that?

In its purest formless state. But NDEs are not that pure or formless.

God-Realization is more pure and profound than an NDE. That's why we are not chasing after NDEs.

Edited 16 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Isn’t God fully unbiased and without attachments? Why would God think about that?

Nobody knows the structure of reality. Maybe there are other dimensions, conscious reincarnation, maybe no. I have the feeling that what I do in this life have an reverberation, and what I have to do is being absolutely aligned with my nature, totally integral. I feel this game as a serious one, with serious consequences. But maybe I'm absolutely wrong.

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Nobody knows the structure of reality. Maybe there are other dimensions, conscious reincarnation, maybe no. I have the feeling that what I do in this life have an reverberation, and what I have to do is being absolutely aligned with my nature, totally integral. I feel this game as a serious one, with serious consequences. But maybe I'm absolutely wrong.

Well the consequences make the game real otherwise you're just in a dream like you have at night. Continuity is what consequences are made of. If you kill someone and everybody forgets tomorrow then it can still be a big deal but you don't face pain as a result so you won't treat it seriously. Pain is basically the graphics of real life everything else outside of it you can ignore. 

Even substance like Leo talked about seems to be an illusion. I've had dreams where I touch the wall and it feels quite real. Real life is the only one with continuous identifiable pain though! 

[Clarence]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Then it wasn't full death. Hence "near" death experience.

I don't think there's any guarantee that physical death means immediate and absolute detachment from everything for everyone.

How do you know for sure that would be the case?

Psychedelic awakenings aren't actual physical death either.

Edited 6 hours ago by Clarence

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, LordFall said:

Well the consequences make the game real otherwise you're just in a dream like you have at night. Continuity is what consequences are made of. If you kill someone and everybody forgets tomorrow then it can still be a big deal but you don't face pain as a result so you won't treat it seriously. Pain is basically the graphics of real life everything else outside of it you can ignore. 

Even substance like Leo talked about seems to be an illusion. I've had dreams where I touch the wall and it feels quite real. Real life is the only one with continuous identifiable pain though! 

Then according to you the reality is a designed game?

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Clarence said:

I don't think there's any guarantee that physical death means immediate and absolute detachment from everything for everyone.

It doesn't have to mean that, but it depends on how you want to define terms.

I suggest you contemplate what death is.

[Hojo]

16 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Isn’t God fully unbiased and without attachments? Why would God think about that?

You will be in the void a very long time. God will wait till you become pure awareness. God is permanently aware deep sleep.

Imagine you are sleeping you wake up but you are still in the sleeping state. You go hey something not right here there used to be stuff here when I woke up but now theres nothing.. and spiral as you feel stuck then you go to sleep 16 hours later but you are still in the same state just not thinking. Then you wake up still in sleep state and think that you are not deep sleep. You spiral again and then enter deep sleep again. Eventually you enter a state where you become aware you are a void and wake up or become aware and you dont think anything and just sit there. You are now God. You dont go to sleep anymore or wake up you are aware deep sleep a permanent state that lasts forever, there is no more time.

When you go to sleep at night you are actually aware but you can only hold it for so long before thinking again.

This permanent void state of eternal awareness is happening right now close your eyes your looking at it.

Edited 5 hours ago by Hojo

[Clarence]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't have to mean that, but it depends on how you want to define terms.

It seemed to me that that's what you were saying.

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I suggest you contemplate what death is.

I think that there are degrees of death.

And that there is a difference between what happens after we die and death in the most absolute sense.

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Clarence said:

It seemed to me that that's what you were saying.

To me, death means Infinity. If it is short of Infinity then I don't like calling it death.

But this is my definition. You don't have to accept it.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[AtmanIsBrahman]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

17 hours ago, cistanche_enjoyer said:

Based on the NDE reports, that “point of awareness” seems to still have attachments - thinking about loved ones or family is a common theme. 

Then it wasn't full death. Hence "near" death experience.

Do you think the idea of heaven/afterlife comes from people having these partial-death experiences, where the ego is still active to some extent?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

Do you think the idea of heaven/afterlife comes from people having these partial-death experiences, where the ego is still active to some extent?

High mystical states can easily feel like Heaven. This does not require an NDE. I have never had an NDE but I understand how Heaven/paradise can be imagined.

Afterlife can also be understood or surmised through high mystical states, not only NDEs.

All it really takes is high states of consciousness. An NDE is a subset of that category.

All the stuff in an NDE can be understood without an NDE.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[AtmanIsBrahman]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

High mystical states can easily feel like Heaven. This does not require an NDE. I have never had an NDE but I understand how Heaven/paradise can be imagined.

I was referring to the average person’s heaven with a family reunion and 72 virgins.

Maybe this is how people interpret mystical teachings through their ego, or alternatively they could come from people’s partial realizations. I’m trying to figure out which one it is.