Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[UnbornTao]

20 hours ago, zurew said:

Yeah, and given how some people reacted to your question in that thread, that was also interesting.

Leo backed himself into a corner by creating a standard by which he can be held accountable (specifically related to that point), and it's clear that he doesn't give the slightest fuck about it and will imply that you're wrong for even attempting to hold him to his own words.

Hours and hours of ramblings about epistemology, integrity, maturity, self-deception, epistemic responsibility, and how scientists fall into the trap of infinitely delaying paradigm change—and then, when shit hits the fan, he can't embody or live by anything that he preaches about. 

" I'm Leo. I made some claims in the past, and I created a standard for myself. Now, should I acknowledge that I was wrong, or at the very least lower my credence in the belief that I can undergo such a transformation after years of failure? Naaah, let me choose the other option,where I label UnbornTao closed-minded for holding me to my own words, and then call it a day (like a mature, epistemically responsible, non-manipulative, 'truth is my highest virtue and value' guy). "

Some people here did not pick up on the significance of Leo's reaction to your question. His reaction shows that he doesn't have the spine or the integrity to acknowledge failure and be responsible for his own standards and his own word (especially when it comes to things he cares about -  like maintaining a special identity).

His reaction to your question simultaneously targets and undermines his epistemology, integrity, and his alleged deep care about what's true.

Spot on.

I think that people can be quite gullible, and this is conflated with so-called open-mindedness. Leo is obviously not excluded from this.

If anything, this is a good, practical case study of these things.

Sounding like this or that person and using shared terminology doesn't necessarily mean they're talking about the same thing.

The more I pay attention, the more I'm convinced Leo is far more dizzy when it comes to this "awakening" business than he'd like to admit - to himself. The situation wouldn't be so exacerbated were it not for the grandiose, superior claims. I don't have a problem with them coming across as egotistical; I simply see them as unfounded.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Spot on.

I think that people can be quite gullible, and this is conflated with so-called open-mindedness. Leo is obviously not excluded from this.

If anything, this is a good, practical case study of these things.

Sounding like this or that person and using shared terminology doesn't necessarily mean they're talking about the same thing.

The more I pay attention, the more I'm convinced Leo is far more dizzy when it comes to this "awakening" business than he'd like to admit - to himself. The situation wouldn't be so exacerbated were it not for the grandiose, superior claims. I don't have a problem with them coming across as egotistical; I simply see them as unfounded.

Also, "Everything is Absolute," "Nothingness is the source of Absolute Consciousness," "Everything is relative," "Imagination is everything", "limitation is a hallucination," "The Mind is absolute imagination," and so on and so forth - these kinds of assessments, once believed or claimed, can be used for pretty much any purpose.

It might be true that "God is infinite imagination." (whatever that actually points to, which may be different from your conception of it and your mind-associations.) But then, as a concrete example, how is it that, given the inability to record such a video, you're confronted with something that can't be explained away with an "Imagination Awakening"? Tricky tricky.

I'm not explaining this very well.

Edited 3 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Elliott]

The gullible people are you guys that think people believe Leo can turn into E.T.

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

The gullible people are you guys that think people believe Leo can turn into E.T.

Alien Mind is beyond the physical universe or anything human.

Human transforming into an physical alien on planet earth is a cartoonish fantasy of what is actually being pointed to:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/alien-consciousness-visualization

Edited 3 hours ago by Yimpa

[zurew]

No, no there is no coping around this.

Its very clear what Leo claimed here. 

Quote

How about you guys chill and just trust me on this?

I will show you Alien Awakening that will absolutely blow your mind. When I finally post it on Youtube, people's jaws will drop. My Awakening will contradict 5000 years of spiritual teaching. And it won't just be words, you will visually see me morph into an Alien Intelligence. And if I don't, then you can call out my bullshit.

Until then, sit tight.

There are an Infinite number of different types of Awakenings and an Infinite number of different types of Absolute Love. Everything I am talking about is Absolute. Nothing conceptual.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by zurew

[Yimpa]

@zurew Thank you for sharing. This is also important context to add:

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And in the meantime I don't want a bunch of drama, demonization, and debate swirreling around me.

💀 

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This transition has been very emotionally draining on me. I basically had to face my own death and deepest fears.

Real knows real.

Edited 3 hours ago by Yimpa

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Actually, you are wrong. Read people's responses on the original thread.

There may be 1 or 2, but most were joking around.

[Elliott]

25 minutes ago, zurew said:

No, no there is no coping around this.

Its very clear what Leo claimed here. 

 

"Alien Awakening" "alien intelligence"

That does not mean a physical alien

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Osaid]

24 minutes ago, zurew said:

No, no there is no coping around this.

Apparently there is lol

[zurew]

23 minutes ago, Elliott said:

"Alien Awakening"

That does not mean a physical alien

I love the cope.

What do you think this part means "And it won't just be words, you will visually see me morph into an Alien Intelligence."

But also here you go.

Will wait for how you cope your way out of this one

 

Edited 2 hours ago by zurew

[Elliott]

13 minutes ago, zurew said:

I love the cope.

What do you think this part means "And it won't just be words, you will visually see me morph into an Alien Intelligence."

But also here you go.

Will wait for how you cope your way out of this one

 

 

Quote

 

That's a joke

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[zurew]

38 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Apparently there is lol

This is getting very, very sad at this point.

So we have two posts where Leo is very explicit about this, and one of those posts is followed by another in which he talks about how debating this topic takes a toll on his psyche and that he is just trying to communicate it as authentically as possible.

On top of all that, you have Leo's "I'm not going to bend over backwards over your closed-mindedness." response to UnbornTao's callout.

And then you have "I'm not here to debate, I'm just here to understand perspectives, and I'm just here to frequently character assassinate everyone I disagree with" Elliott saying, "Hmm, I think he was just joking."

Edited 2 hours ago by zurew

[Human Mint]

Boooring

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, zurew said:

This is getting very, very sad at this point.

So we have two posts where Leo is very explicit about this, and one of those posts is followed by another in which he talks about how debating this topic takes a toll on his psyche and that he is just trying to communicate it as authentically as possible.

On top of all that, you have Leo's "I'm not going to bend over backwards over your closed-mindedness." response to UnbornTao's callout.

And then you have "I'm not here to debate, I'm just here to understand perspectives, and I'm just here to frequently character assassinate everyone I disagree with" Elliott saying, "Hmm, I think he was just joking."

I think everything is objectively pretty clear. It's just a common tactic here to backpedal super hard I guess. That moment when Leo was like "I said I might be wrong so actually I'm right" was pretty insane.

EQ is being able to tell when someone doesn't actually care about the topic, though.

[zurew]

25 minutes ago, Osaid said:

EQ is being able to tell when someone doesn't actually care about the topic, though.

That’s a fair criticism. I got baited (although I don’t think baiting applies to Yimpa — I think Yimpa is a good, well-intentioned person).

Edited 1 hour ago by zurew

[Human Mint]

When you realize Alien Consciousness was there all along waiting for you to tap into it:

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, zurew said:

That’s a fair criticism. I got baited (although I don’t think that applies to Yimpa — I think Yimpa is a good, well-intentioned person).

Sometimes even if the other person doesn't seem to care I'll still say something so other people can read it. I think I've said everything I wanted to, though.

Edited 1 hour ago by Osaid

[Elliott]

This is exactly what they did to the first-coming of Leo (Jesus/E.T.)

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[jimwell]

Leo is not a narcissist or a cult leader. It’s absurd to think that he is.

But he does have narcissistic traits. That doesn’t mean such traits are bad. In fact, they can be good. You need self‑trust, self‑confidence, and a desire to be unique and stand out to accomplish great things. If Leo didn’t have such characteristics, there would be no Actualized.org.

Leo is a genuine top‑level philosopher, epistemologist, and mystic who deserves respect. That doesn’t mean he is perfect. I have seen many errors from him over the years. I don’t remember all of them, but recently he claimed that OCD is a coping mechanism for underdeveloped minds to feel safe. That’s a weak insight. Obviously, most underdeveloped minds don’t suffer from OCD. OCD is the result of genetic predisposition, childhood trauma, and certain personality types. I even think people with OCD are more intelligent than those without it.

OCD is the ultimate form of perfectionism. People who deeply desire the highest quality of work often exhibit OCD tendencies during the process. They become perfectionists. They can’t even sleep at night if they notice any imperfection. This applies to nearly all high‑level traders, directors, authors, software programmers, musicians, designers, and others. It’s either perfection, or they suffer from anxiety and restlessness. OCD is painful.

Leo also tends to exaggerate things. And it seems his integrity is not high enough for a spiritual teacher. I think he should have clearly explained why he wasn’t able to heal himself after claiming he would through awakening. Also, that alien awakening claim was horrible. Where was the video of him transforming into alien intelligence? If it’s not possible, then own it and explain. That’s a true show of integrity. I don’t think he should have made a video about integrity, because his embodiment of such an important characteristic is not strong enough.

The reason Leo tends to make exaggerated claims is that he lacks experiential knowledge and embodiment. He is very good at conceptual comprehension. But experiential knowledge and comprehension are superior to conceptual and theoretical ones.

It’s comical that many, or even most, of his moderators turn on him. I have seen this pattern repeat for many years. He freely chose his disciples and generals, but they end up “betraying” him. It’s clear that his epistemic judgment in this aspect is weak. I wonder why moderators who think Leo is a narcissist, cult leader, or someone worthy of caution accepted their roles to begin with. If they realized this only after becoming moderators, then why not quit?

I appreciate @puporing for showing integrity. When they discovered or believed that Leo was a horrible spiritual teacher, she quit. She walked her talk.