Rhythm vs Melody

[Extreme Z7]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What's most important is what sells the song.

I have an additional point to make about this...

This is sorta like the situation of growing up sheltered in a first-world country and not having seen much outside of it.

How much music have you listened to by audio-design amateurs who make shitty beats? Probably not a lot. I tend to look for more stuff by amateur hobbyists more, and I've made a lot of shitty-sounding beats of my own in the past.

So you probably take it for granted that Rhythm is not that important because every successful song is already guaranteed to come with a professionally-made and polished beat to it. It's generally easier to standardize making a great rhythm than it is to make a great melody.

Ultimately, the melody is where the creative potential is going to come but it will still sound lame without the right beat.
You can read every music theory book there is, you're still gonna need to hire an audio engineer to make sure your beats don't sound like ass.

Go ahead and try to sell an album with genius melodies but shitty production.
 

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rice in sushi is necessary but it's not what sells sushi. It's not why people love sushi. It's not why people keep buying sushi.

As someone from the Philippines. We have rice with every single meal. Yeah maybe out of conformity, but point is Rice on its own still sells.

Edited 14 hours ago by Extreme Z7

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Nobody buys a song for its beat.

Just like nobody buys a cheeseburger for its bread.

Bruh, there is a whole dance battle market. And it is decent in size.

Not as big as football or the likes but a sizeable market.

But I agree that what sells to the mass is not beat or rythm. It’s the emotional impact.

Edited 13 hours ago by Miguel1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Beat gets me moving and I will smash out 40kms mountain biking in an adrenaline filled rush. Or dance all night!

Melody - particularly strings - will fuck me in the feels :

Then add a defined beat/rhythm - I'M DONE FOR:

 

[gengar]

Hearing @Leo Gura talk about metaphysics is like hearing a 5th dimensional demigod talk about metaphysics.

Hearing him talk about music is like hearing a profoundly retarded and spoiled 14 year old atheist talking about philosophy.

First of all, there is no melody without rhythm, but there is rhythm without melody. 

"What's most important is what sells the song."

Second of all, the way you talk about these matters is deeply unsettling. Like music is just some "beat" to sell like a pack of chicken breast. That you're going along with the cynical capitalist reasoning these labels exploited is insane. You were the one to lead me to the realization that artistry and art is an absolute facet of God and now you say shit like this.

To look at music in such a retardedly simplified way is a betrayal to your own cause, Leo. There exists music that is almost entirely rhythmical and music that is almost entirely melodic. if you truly appreciate art you'd realize this and the profoundness of this without having to enjoy such music. 
 

Edited 12 hours ago by gengar

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nobody buys a song for its beat.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard, lol.

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Nemra]

20 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Melody - particularly strings - will fuck me in the feels :

I find orchestral music to be very appealing compared to other types.

Some of the orchestral music instantly sends shivers down my spine and makes me cry out of awe at the beauty of harmony.

[vibv]

You can't separate Melody, Structure (including Rhythm) & Harmony.

But the Melody for sure is the Crown Jewel.

[Miguel1]

Here’s a few completely different type of music I enjoy the most.

1. Melody, drop is majestic:

https://on.soundcloud.com/MOYfHmEZ3yVC07JXK3

2. Lyrical (bittersweet):

https://on.soundcloud.com/TTTQxvMvTweHwdTP9s

3. Beat heavy (gets the most out of my dancing, technical wise):

https://on.soundcloud.com/kr7DQGtvleh9A89F8u

4. Melody, sad:

https://on.soundcloud.com/44UYeDwoJekW5V3EgB

- - - - -

Bonuses:

1. If I want to go absolutely fucking nuts:

https://on.soundcloud.com/jhTUx3czesiKh5zlQP

2. Lyrical, emotional (gets the most out of my dancing, emotionally):

https://on.soundcloud.com/ese9UFtvO0jN8F9W9S

3. A Vibe! (skip to 12 mins onwards):

https://on.soundcloud.com/oVUFMLSqOyfi85JMDo

4. Melody, feel good / happy:

https://on.soundcloud.com/rKBGWQcoTVYIw4hBp1

5. Sexy:

https://on.soundcloud.com/zVQLfaTMMO6E0FiUtM

6. Last but not least. This is everything / love 🫶:

https://on.soundcloud.com/f93UMmjkXCH8rPnYnz

Oh, I am reminded that I have a whole album for intimacy / love-making. But I won’t drop that until Leo drops his porn collection 

- - - - -

I have too many freaking songs if I were to list them all. Music is a HUGE part of my life.

This conversation is so good and I think has potential to something very profound, if we keep it civilized and respectful. I intuit that understanding music deeply is very important to our work, because the best of it is directly in touch with God.

Music conversations can trigger all sorts of negative reactions because it is emotional, and personal.

So let’s be cognizant of it. I am dropping my list with the risk of being completely judged. Here I am, naked for you. Go for it!

Edited 8 hours ago by Miguel1

[VioleGrace]

3 hours ago, gengar said:

Second of all, the way you talk about these matters is deeply unsettling. Like music is just some "beat" to sell like a pack of chicken breast. That you're going along with the cynical capitalist reasoning these labels exploited is insane.

I think he was talking about what state of conscioussness or emotion the song wanted to convey 

[Leo Gura]

You guys are being all smart-ass with me. But there is a reason why pop-music is so melody-focused. Because what I said is true: what sells music is a delicious melody.

Yeah, there are some folk who love niche kinds of music (dub-step and shit), but they are the exception that proves the rule.

It's like people who glorify story in video games. Story does not sell video games. Story is not why people buy video games. And if you don't understand that, you are a bad designer.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys are being all smart-ass with me.

I do not think so - I think maybe you are attempting to sell your preference as objective fact. 

In my opinion, it is not so simple at all! 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

you are attempting to sell your preference

It's not just my preference. Hence the point about sales.

Of course I am oversimplifying it. I know people love different things and I don't expect everyone to love what I love.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Adam M]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Melody is way more important.

Melody is what makes the tune worth listening to. Rhythm doesn't make or break the tune, it's there in the background doing its job, working for the melody.

If the melody isn't great the tune isn't worthwhile no matter how good the rest is.

I feel like the melody is the expression of the heart vibration. 

That's what causes it to get stuck in your head.

There's more raw emotion involved in it.

I noticed that when a song resonates with me emotionally that's what causes it to become "stuck" or imprinted in my consciousness.

Like you said, the rhythm is more of the supporting cast. 

So, I agree. Interesting point!

Edited 7 hours ago by Adam M

[Arthogaan]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not just my preference. Hence the point about sales.

Of course I am oversimplifying it. I know people love different things and I don't expect everyone to love what I love.

I would argue it's not about melody or rhytm but VIBES.

Vibe creation.

I can listen to ambient or drum&bass with simple 2 chord progression for hours if soundscape and sound engineering produces interesting vibe/archetype.

It's metaphysical at it's core and its about god exploring it's different flavours and aspects.

 

[Leo Gura]

The melody has the character, the charisma, so-to-speak. To fall in love with a song it needs to have character.

Rhythm has less dimension to express that character. Just like rice in a dish doesn't add character to the dish.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

I would argue it's not about melody or rhytm but VIBES.

Yes, Vibes. But I think melody contributes more to the vibe. Melody is crucial for creating a memorable and unique vibe.

[wesxo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, Vibes. But I think melody contributes more to the vibe. Melody is crucial for creating a memorable and unique vibe.

I'd go as far as to say a song without a melody cannot supersede any form of music in marketability.

There is good reason Taylor Swift can vomit those boring  "angsty" teen lyrics lyrics from her mouth and still be possibility the biggest artist alive.

[Arthogaan]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, Vibes. But I think melody contributes more to the vibe. Melody is crucial for creating a memorable and unique vibe.

I agree mostly but on the other end of the spectrum you can even have just simple drums with zero melody and it generates this very unique shaman-like, tribal, trance vibe - and in that unique case adding melody to it would take away from this raw, tribal feel.

 

Check this out:

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Arthogaan

[Carl-Richard]

Music that tightly interweaves rhythm and melody is some of the most entertaining and musically satisfying music. One of the best examples of this:

7:04

 

 

[VioleGrace]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, Vibes. But I think melody contributes more to the vibe. Melody is crucial for creating a memorable and unique vibe.

I think that is the point people are trying to tell you yes melody is crucial to create a unique vibe of the song, but on certain song the beat can change TOTALLY the vibe of the song 

I am getting interested in beatmaking ressently and i watched a beatmaker explaining his thought processes while creating and he prefer create the melody first, and when he add the beat the mood of the song gets totally changed he can pass too a dark vibes with drums to a pop song or a drill angry syle just adding BPMs