Do men and women awaken equally ?

[Hojo]

You dont try to awaken. Its an unconcious process. You cant awaken trying to awaken. If you awaken its because you were looking for something you didn't even know you were looking for. You were delving into unknown. You were looking for unknown without realizing you were doing it.

When it hits you its like Jesus Christ this is what I was looking for without even realizing I was looking for this. Its like you were blindfolded your entire life and you took the blindfold off and found what you were looking for right in front of you.

Theres nothing else to say besides I did it.

If you took 1000 men and woman and told them to try to awaken the ones that didnt try to awaken would awaken first.

The ones who say this is fucking bullshit I dont even know what you are talking about would awaken first.

Edited 9 hours ago by Hojo

[Terell Kirby]

gender aside- how tolerant are you in terms of being socially isolated and misunderstood?

That's the central question for any human seeking Awakening.

It was stated a while back that woman's survival and sense of self is often shaped by her social bonds.

Cutting all that off for Truth poses a bigger risk to survival than men in many cases.

Edited 8 hours ago by Terell Kirby

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Terell Kirby said:

gender aside- how tolerant are you in terms of being socially isolated and misunderstood?

Answering as a women: high tolerance.

I do not fit anyones expections. And people are uncomfortable if they cannot easily slap a label on you and treat you from a pre-set paradigm. If you poke holes in someone's understanding of the world merely with your presence, you are way less likely to be accepted. Let alone understood.

Look at the big 5 psychological model: agreeableness in women is high. Higher than men. Harmony. Cooperation. In general truth runs counter to this function; and agreeableness is, across the board, higher in women. A big portion of this is safety/genetics; women are the weaker sex. We rely on men. Men who build. Provide. Women's survival has traditionally depended on cooperation. There are thousands of years reinforcing these roles.

It is only in modern epocs we are facing gender roles disintegrating. 

It might be important to note describing elements and traits as 'masculine' or 'feminine' is a concept. Just a concept that can help describe how one sex works in general.

 

[Terell Kirby]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It might be important to note describing elements and traits as 'masculine' or 'feminine' is a concept.

Certainly a worthy endeavor to deconstruct such labels and categories:

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Terell Kirby 🎯❤️

[Joshe]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But this is a total cop-out.

Having drive for Awakening is 90% of the problem.

You have constructed exactly the "aunt has balls" scenario.

Yes, if women had balls they would Awaken at the same rate to men. Not having balls is the thing in question.

I agree with you on the current circumstances, obviously, but I disagree that nature is more determinant than nurture with regard to drive for a thing. 

If you took 1000 female children and raised them in isolation where awakening was the ultimate goal - told them from birth this is what matters and built cultural reinforcements around it - you could easily program them to have the requisite drive.

You're saying truth-seeking suits the masculine better, but how do you know how much of that drive is nature vs nurture? Of course it's both, but my 1000 girls thought experiment shows the power of nurture.

It would even be possible to flip the script completely given specific circumstances. So, it seems to me you're not speaking on what is inherently true, just what is true right now.

[Hojo]

Heres a scenario there is a man and woman in a family.

Invaders are coming the woman says my husband will protect me.

The man has to defend his family or die its up to him the woman either helps or hides with the children.

Then man must confront the fact that he has no help and he himself must do it alone.

The woman abides her life to the man and dosent except that she has no help, the man is protecting her. (She still has hope)

The man awakens this way.

Not specifically to this scenario but metaphysically comparable. 

Its must rarer than the woman says go hide the kids hunny I will protect us alone.

If the woman helps the husband its still not awakening as she is using herself as a team of the dream. 

The man is more likely to know hes alone where the woman will still be dreaming thinking a dream character is there to help.

Once you get rid of all hope and all dream characters to help you, you can awaken.

You do this by fearing death and realize no one can help you with this MASSIVE conundrum.

You dont push it to the side you experience the panic and fear and anxiety over and over and over again until you wake up.

You dont push it off till you are in your 50s and have a midlife crisis and instead of facing and feeling the problem you buy a motorcycle then experience it again at 60 and again at 70.

If you are smart you will take this problem seriously immediately and PANIC!

Edited 8 hours ago by Hojo

[Joshe]

@Hojo I stand corrected! 

[Salvijus]

There will only be more men in Zen because discipline, austerities, isolation and mental masturbation are all masculine forms of spirituality. Females practice spiritually in a totally different way.

Holistic places that incorporate both masculine and feminine such as Isha foundation, Art of living, Osho communities and even vipassana organization (which is a form of zen) have more female participants actually than male. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Salvijus

[Joseph Maynor]

In my experience women tend to have a deeper integration of Love than men.  It depends on what we mean by awakening.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

22 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

In my experience women tend to have a deeper integration of Love than men.  It depends on what we mean by awakening.

It's a good point. I thought of this also.

I think most assume we mean God consciousness.

[Mellowmarsh]

9 hours ago, Loveeee said:

In terms of numbers and depth 

Do more women awaken than men ? Do men awaken deeper ? Or vice-versa,  or is it kinda equal ? 

50/50 ? 40/60, 60/40, or what ? 

What's your feeling 

My feeling is that no one can actually know for certain.

I personally for example cannot know another consciousness with the same certainty that I know my own.
I can only infer the existence of another consciousness through behavioural observation, and shared circumstantial evidence.

The answer to the question of who awakens more would be speculative and blurry at best due to the “problem of other minds” whereby it would only be an assumption that others have awoken, as you can only know for absolute certainty your own awakening.
 

 

 

[theleelajoker]

Why does this whole question and discussion even matter?

What purpose does it even serve other then creating artificial separation "ohhh men are so much/less more this and that" or "women are soooo much less/much more bla bla bla"? 

Just creating more ego identity, more separation, more comparison, more judgement based on hearsay, speculations, assumptions and desire for superiority. 

Aren't many people here taking pride in "oh I am so evolved and this and that and no self and no ego etc"? So what's the whole purpose of this thread?

Haven't seen one person talking about meaningful action, just bla bla narratives. 

Just more identification with certain believes. Stupid AF IMO.

Edited 4 hours ago by theleelajoker

[Salvijus]

Here's an interesting question. Who are more crime oriented, males or females? 

Edited 55 minutes ago by Salvijus

[Hojo]

@Joseph Maynor God isnt love its a void of nothing sitting there. You can see it and experience terror it dosent care. Its just there.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Alexop]

given the knowledge about female and male biology, we can say men are more inclined to detaching from groupthink and motivating themselves to pursue a higher purpose, to intellectualize more, to map stuff, to figure out stuff, which might give them an advantage. But that only if they are properly "forged" into mature men, because we also see lots of men-children nowadays. Of course culture is an influence, but culture is influenced by biology. We can isolate that variable by examining all the possible cultures, societies and tribes in the world and we will notice common patterns, tendencies and preferences. This men vs women topic is very difficult because you don't know how much is biology and how much is culture. Especially in this pursuit of awakening question. Suffering motivates everyone. If a woman suffers a lot, she might motivate herself enough to pursue whatever at the same level as men, but that might be statistically rarer.

[Joseph Maynor]

11 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@Joseph Maynor God isnt love its a void of nothing sitting there. You can see it and experience terror it dosent care. Its just there.

How would you describe Absolute Love?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Why does this whole question and discussion even matter?

What purpose does it even serve other then creating artificial separation "ohhh men are so much/less more this and that" or "women are soooo much less/much more bla bla bla"? 

Just creating more ego identity, more separation, more comparison, more judgement based on hearsay, speculations, assumptions and desire for superiority. 

Aren't many people here taking pride in "oh I am so evolved and this and that and no self and no ego etc"? So what's the whole purpose of this thread?

Haven't seen one person talking about meaningful action, just bla bla narratives. 

Just more identification with certain believes. Stupid AF IMO.

It might be an attempt to bridge the gap, rather than further seperate. If real understanding is the aim. 

Depends on if the enquiry is genuinely open, and no one attempts to deny anyone elses view. 

You could look at it in a similar way as the solipsism threads everywhere 🤪

I suppose I do not feel so identified with masculine or feminine in a strong way. I just am. So I do not take offence. 

If I see someone genuinely trying to elevate one polarity over another I normally call it out.

Do you see that happening here? 

I haven't seen a lot of the no-self, I am more awakened blah blah as much around here so much. Still sometimes happens. 

[Alexop]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Why does this whole question and discussion even matter?

What purpose does it even serve other then creating artificial separation "ohhh men are so much/less more this and that" or "women are soooo much less/much more bla bla bla"? 

Just creating more ego identity, more separation, more comparison, more judgement based on hearsay, speculations, assumptions and desire for superiority. 

Aren't many people here taking pride in "oh I am so evolved and this and that and no self and no ego etc"? So what's the whole purpose of this thread?

Haven't seen one person talking about meaningful action, just bla bla narratives. 

Just more identification with certain believes. Stupid AF IMO.

dude, the purpose is understanding how reality works. If some people use these discussions wrongly, that is their problem. In the same way we observe that cats do not really like to behave like dogs. That helps us understand cats and their needs and preferences. In fact I observe lots of ego in these post-modern people who hate mapping and intellectualizing the world. Don't understand a subject? Easy. Just deny it's importance and call the people who analyze it as full of ego. 

Be careful with denying subjects just because they sound off to you.

Edited 54 minutes ago by Alexop

[theleelajoker]

22 minutes ago, Alexop said:

dude, the purpose is understanding how reality works. If some people use these discussions wrongly, that is their problem. In the same way we observe that cats do not really like to behave like dogs. That helps us understand cats and their needs and preferences. In fact I observe lots of ego in these post-modern people who hate mapping and intellectualizing the world. Don't understand a subject? Easy. Just deny it's importance and call the people who analyze it as full of ego. 

Be careful with denying subjects just because they sound off to you.

Oh we are playing that game?

"Dude, the purpose is to experience reality"

Or 

"Dude, the purpose is not to ask "which  categorized goup is awakening ABC?" but  instead "how can I find the best way to support awakening re the individuals in my direct field of awareness?"

Be careful with taking a personal perspective and making it a generalized rule about "purpose" just because it sounds off to you.

The difference is description oriented vs. action oriented. 

Edited 35 minutes ago by theleelajoker