BREAKING NEWS: ICE shoots and kills woman

[BlueOak]

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The problem is that every story has two sides. All the things you've mentioned could be either justified or reframed/recontextualized in such a way that it sounds positive not negative. Not that I'm interested in doing that. Some right wing commentator probably already does that. 

Yes. Everything has an infinite amount of possible perspectives on it.

You asked what they are rebelling against. What I listed is a general overview.

[UnbornTao]

 

[DocWatts]

10 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The problem is that every story has two sides. All the things you've mentioned could be either justified or reframed/recontextualized in such a way that it sounds positive not negative. Not that I'm interested in doing that. Some right wing commentator probably already does that. 

And not every viewpoint has something useful to contribute, which is why we don't need to give Nazis (and their American equivalents) a seat at the table.

Malicious bullshit loves nothing more than to be treated as a legitimate perspective - the harm these viewpoints cause isn’t an unintended byproduct, but a deliberate strategy for achieving ends that honest methods can’t reach.

Edited 20 hours ago by DocWatts

[Salvijus]

8 hours ago, DocWatts said:

And not every viewpoint has something useful to contribute, which is why we don't need to give Nazis (and their American equivalents) a seat at the table.

Everyone thinks we're the good guys and others are the bad guys. Allowing everyone to sit at the table and talk is the most concious way of dealing with conflict, otherwise "when diplomacy ends, war begins" 

Edited 12 hours ago by Salvijus

[Jodistrict]

9 hours ago, DocWatts said:

And not every viewpoint has something useful to contribute, which is why we don't need to give Nazis (and their American equivalents) a seat at the table.

Malicious bullshit loves nothing more than to be treated as a legitimate perspective - the harm these viewpoints cause isn’t an unintended byproduct, but a deliberate strategy for achieving ends that honest methods can’t reach.

After seeing what is happening in America, I have come to the conclusion that the fascist viewpoint has to be exterminated, similar to denazification after World War II.   Trump had all the power (executive and the congress) and what did he do with that power? Answer:  Death, tears, and broken bones.  Nothing good has come of it for the people – inflation, unaffordable medical care, housing crisis, etc.   That is why they have to provoke violence to the point where they label a soccer mom in her car a terrorist. Because their philosophy can’t produce anything good.  I fully support Europe in suppressing this menace with all the means at their disposal. 

[Nercohype]

We need to rise up against this! There is no talking with them. The most consious thing is to do is to self defence, right now. We have to fight back. What comes around, goes around. The extream far right must be taken down by ANY means nessecary. People here talking bullshit about having to sit on the same table with the se demons. There is no two sides of this argument. The cold fact is that the extream far right is the problem. I don't care if they think they are good guys. They need to be put down and arrested

[zurew]

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Everyone thinks we're the good guys and others are the bad guys. Allowing everyone to sit at the table and talk is the most concious way of dealing with conflict, otherwise "when diplomacy ends, war begins

This framing is beyond retarded and you are playing a dishonest and a stupid game. You make it seem like not wanting to have a talk when there is a fundamental value disagreement is what causes war, and not the fact that the other guy has fundamentally different values and that he acts on those values.

You would be the guy who would say that the reason why we are at war is because a child (who got raped) wasn't willing to sit down and have a debate about why child rape is good with a serial child rapist.

Diplomacy ended at the time when the child rapist decided to rape the child, and not at the time when the raped child wasn't willing to have a talk with the child rapist.

[Nercohype]

@zurew yes! Exactly! If a murderer comes to your house. You don't invite him to sit on the table with you to have "conversation." No, he will fucking kill you and take your family. I don't understand how people in this forum are so fucking naive and ignorant. They all have rose goggels and live in lala land. 

[Raze]

[Salvijus]

Talking will always remain the most concious and humane way of solving conflict. It's only when one or more sides are not willing to listen and talk anymore that war and ugly behavior becomes the only option. You have to get the context right as to why I'm saying this. I wrote my response in regards to DocWatts saying that we should no longer entertain any discussions at the table with people of different opinions. That's a bad attitude imo. A low concious one. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Salvijus

[something_else]

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Talking will always remain the most concious and humane way of solving conflict. It's only when one or more sides are not willing to listen and talk anymore that war and ugly behavior becomes the only option. You have to get the context right as to why I'm saying this. I wrote my response in regards to DocWatts saying that we should no longer entertain any discussions at the table with people of different opinions. That's a bad attitude imo. A low concious one. 

This sounds good in theory, but it only works if both sides are mature and open to real discussion. Do you honestly think that’s true of Trump, Vance or any of the major Republicans in right-wing US politics right now?

Just look at how Trump and Vance have handled this shooting, they deny basic facts and are essentially taking the approach of 'lie hard and lie fast to control the narrative'. You can’t have a healthy, productive conversation with people who put political goals ahead of truth like that.

The right is much more willing to play dirty, while the left usually hold themselves to a higher standard, they often take the high road and want to “have the discussion,” but what we are seeing now is that this approach just doesn’t work with people who are too stupid, too ignorant or too malicious to actually have a discussion about the best course of action.

Edited 42 minutes ago by something_else

[DocWatts]

48 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Talking will always remain the most concious and humane way of solving conflict. It's only when one or more sides are not willing to listen and talk anymore that war and ugly behavior becomes the only option. You have to get the context right as to why I'm saying this. I wrote my response in regards to DocWatts saying that we should no longer entertain any discussions at the table with people of different opinions. That's a bad attitude imo. A low concious one. 

One 'side' here is using a paramilitary to kidnap and murder civilians, the other is coming out in nonviolent protest of these Gestapo tactics.

ICE and its defenders are too far gone for any type of meaningful dialogue.

The only question is how we're going to defend ourselves when Trump's Secret Police comes to kidnap and murder us. (Note: this does not necessarily entail violence, it can mean having lots and lots of people come out to document and disrupt ICE).

MAGA is the American version of a Nazi movement. And just as in Germany, not all of its adherents are sociopaths - tens of millions of ordinary people have willingly allowed themselves to become tools of evil. 

Edited 5 hours ago by DocWatts

[Nercohype]

@Salvijus yeah, and he is right about not having talks. You need to come back to reality here. There is no conversation to be had with them. Not anymore. You hide behind your "being more consious" is not fooling anyone. Tell me how will you have conversations with a murderer coming to your home, who wants to kill you and your family? Will you sacrifice your family safty or will you defend them? 

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

If you live in the States, VOTE IN THE DAMNED PRIMARIES.

The only way we get these fascist collaborators out of office is through primaries, and the only way we get a Democratic Party that does what we want is through sustained public pressure.

I've been hearing that AOC might issue a primary challenge to Chuck Schumer....

Edited 5 hours ago by DocWatts

[Salvijus]

Have your war if you see no other way just don't take this attitude that others are not worth hearing out. 

15 hours ago, DocWatts said:

And not every viewpoint has something useful to contribute, which is why we don't need to give Nazis (and their American equivalents) a seat at the table.

I only have problem with this one sentence. Everything else you guys said are fine. 

[DocWatts]

7 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Have your war if you see no other way just don't take this attitude that others are not worth hearing out. 

Nazis are not worth hearing out. I will die on this hill.

The most compassionate thing we can do is work to make sure that we don't all burn to death in the dumpster fire they started.

NOT by treating malicious viewpoints as legitimate perspectives that are worthy of consideration and debate.

Edited 5 hours ago by DocWatts

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Nazis are not worth hearing out. I will die on this hill.

It rises the question, who's the violent one here then? 

[DocWatts]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

It rises the question, who's the violent one here then? 

The one whose Gestapo agents are invading our cities and murdering civilians.

What an asinine question.

Edited 5 hours ago by DocWatts

[Salvijus]

9 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

The one whose Gestapo agents are kidnapping and murdering American civilians.

What an asinine question.

I doubt you understand the depth of the question. Your approach is no different than that of a nazi. Yet you believe you're far more concious than them. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Salvijus

[DocWatts]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I doubt you understand the depth of the question. Your take is no different than that of a nazi. Yet you believe you're far more concious than them. 

I've never trafficked anyone to a concentration camp. Never shot fleeing civilian in the face and then called her a 'fucking bitch' as her lifeless body was slumped over the steering wheel

 

If whatever form of myticism you're pursuing doesn't give you the moral clarity to call out the state sanctioned murder of an unarmed civilian, then I kindly ask that you keep your comments to yourself.

Edited 4 hours ago by DocWatts