Spiritual Gymnastics

[r0ckyreed]

I am coining the term spiritual gymnastics. I had an insight while reading If Truth Be Told By Om Swami. He talked about monks engaging in intense sadhanas to the point where they would push their bodies and minds to the limits such as meditating in the ice, fasting, etc. 

As I was reading this, I had an insight that none of this has to do with enlightenment/awakening. It is no different than a body builder going to the gym or a marathoner running 150 miles. None of those intense meditations have to do with enlightenment - understanding reality. They are all about transcending the body/mind and pushing it to its limits.

I see the spiritual gymnastics game being played. Monks were amazed by how many days in a row Om Swami was able to meditate. But no monk stressed the extent of Om Swami’s understanding/insight. Buddhism is spiritual gymnastics. It’s not about truth/understanding. It’s about who can tolerate and transcend suffering the most. All of their rituals, tantra, and Tumo meditations are about gymnastics not truth.

All of this semen retention, laying down on nails, walking on fire, meditating in the winter, chanting a mantra, etc. is a form of spiritual gymnastics. It’s fake spirituality.

 

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I am coining the term spiritual gymnastics. I had an insight while reading If Truth Be Told By Om Swami. He talked about monks engaging in intense sadhanas to the point where they would push their bodies and minds to the limits such as meditating in the ice, fasting, etc. 

As I was reading this, I had an insight that none of this has to do with enlightenment/awakening. It is no different than a body builder going to the gym or a marathoner running 150 miles. None of those intense meditations have to do with enlightenment - understanding reality. They are all about transcending the body/mind and pushing it to its limits.

I see the spiritual gymnastics game being played. Monks were amazed by how many days in a row Om Swami was able to meditate. But no monk stressed the extent of Om Swami’s understanding/insight. Buddhism is spiritual gymnastics. It’s not about truth/understanding. It’s about who can tolerate and transcend suffering the most. All of their rituals, tantra, and Tumo meditations are about gymnastics not truth.

All of this semen retention, laying down on nails, walking on fire, meditating in the winter, chanting a mantra, etc. is a form of spiritual gymnastics. It’s fake spirituality.

 

Spirituality comes in different forms, and it basic meaning is not about Understanding of Reality, You or anyone will not "Understand" Reality because it is too complex to Understand, once You think You understand, then something else will pop up and once again You will not Understand,  its like a never ending fractal.. 

Spirituality is about touching that dimension of You that is beyond the physical, so what the monk are doing with their sort of Sadhana is just that, a certain way to go beyond the physical, its not too Your liking, or mine, so we call it "anti Spirituality" but if we do this, judge it, then we become blind to what it has to offer and where it leads too, so don't fall into that sort of trap of thinking You know what Spirituality is all about, none of Us do really, we know basics, thats all, Guru's are here to teach us certain things, and too be an example, there's lots of them because there are lots of ppl with varying karmic makeups and personalities/identities, that's all, in the end they are the same, with the same message, You can go beyond the Body and Mind and find out what You truly Are! 

 

[theoneandnone]

Technically all spirituality, religion… science it’s all gymnastics and masturbation it’s apes running around figuring out what this is all for. This song describes my life perfectly!

 

Reminds me of this bare naked ladies song: 

 

[Carl-Richard]

How long can you meditate for?

[Hojo]

Its not fake spirituality you are strengthening yourself so that you can be a tree. How long is a tree stuck outside in the cold?

[r0ckyreed]

5 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Its not fake spirituality you are strengthening yourself so that you can be a tree. How long is a tree stuck outside in the cold?

It’s no different than David Blaine holding his breath underwater or David Goggins running 240 miles. It’s gymnastics. A monk is basically a David Blaine/Goggins for meditation. They meditate but do they realize they are God? Probably not. Look at Wim Hof. He’s doing spiritual gymnastics but he’s not enlightened.

Edited 8 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

It’s no different than David Blaine holding his breath underwater or David Goggins running 240 miles. It’s gymnastics. A monk is basically a David Blaine/Goggins for meditation. They meditate but do they realize they are God? Probably not. Look at Wim Hof. He’s doing spiritual gymnastics but he’s not enlightened.

You have a certain sort of Enlightenment look or how one should be or what Enlightenment actually is, but maybe it is slightly different for ppl.. My interpretation of Enlightenment is that it is the highest possibility and potential for someone to have as an Experience, how that is Expressed is for sure different for Everyone, as well most ppl that get to the Enlightenment Experience also physically die at the sametime, so mostly only Masters or Guru's stay around to do specific work or purpose (Many are just here to balance the Karma of the world).. For eg Eckhart Tolle IMO is not Enlightened, he's a Saint or Sage of sorts, has a teaching and shares it but is not an Enlightened Master of sorts, compared to Sadhguru or Swami Rama or someone like that...

[Natasha Tori Maru]

*IS* it fake though - or part of a process?

Do you not think these are all state changes? Which, when controlled, could quite possibly contribute to realization. Maybe we just do not understand mechanisms

No guarantees.

[Hojo]

@r0ckyreed yeah but the body is enduring its like training yourself to not move under extreme conditions. There are lots of uncomfortable energy states and they are training their soul to endure them. Once you get passed the extreme uncomfortable energies you merge with them.

Imagine you die and want to live in frozen land but you cant your soul or energy freaks out when it touches it. Well you can become a human and train yourself then go there after.

When you leave the earth there will be many uncomfortable energies. You want to become like a tree. It dosent move when you rip its limbs off it just sits and endures and accepts.

Edited 7 hours ago by Hojo

[UnbornTao]

Jerking off your way to enlightenment. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

Look at Wim Hof. He’s doing spiritual gymnastics but he’s not enlightened.

I see Leo contemplating reality but he is not enlightened.

Edited 6 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

How long can you meditate for?

I meditate time into existence, therefore I am time itself 

Time to let go of time.

Edited 6 hours ago by Yimpa

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Ishanga said:

You have a certain sort of Enlightenment look or how one should be or what Enlightenment actually is, but maybe it is slightly different for ppl.. My interpretation of Enlightenment is that it is the highest possibility and potential for someone to have as an Experience, how that is Expressed is for sure different for Everyone, as well most ppl that get to the Enlightenment Experience also physically die at the sametime, so mostly only Masters or Guru's stay around to do specific work or purpose (Many are just here to balance the Karma of the world).. For eg Eckhart Tolle IMO is not Enlightened, he's a Saint or Sage of sorts, has a teaching and shares it but is not an Enlightened Master of sorts, compared to Sadhguru or Swami Rama or someone like that...

What I mean by Enlightenment is total understanding of reality/existence. Enlightenment has nothing to do with how you choose to behave afterwards. It has to do with understanding absolute nature of existence. You can awaken and then choose to start a cult or find your way in creating one.

Edited 4 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I see Leo contemplating reality but he is not enlightened.

I can never know the experience of others. I can only judge based off of my experience. Unless Wim Hof has demonstrated he has realized God, I remain unconvinced.

[r0ckyreed]

One thing that stood out to me from Om Swami is that he illustrated the point of why intention is important. Without true intention to meditate for the purposes of truth, you will end up doing gymnastics instead. One guru claimed to do many sadhanas of ice plunges, fasting, intense mystical experiences, etc. but he was not enlightened. He was focused on transcending suffering rather than on truth. If you had to choose between transcending suffering or truth, I think most monks would choose the former. Thats mainly what Buddhism is about. A big flaw of Buddhism is their conflation of transcendence of suffering with truth. They aren’t the same.

Edited 4 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Yimpa]

24 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I can never know the experience of others. I can only judge based off of my experience. Unless Wim Hof has demonstrated he has realized God, I remain unconvinced.

Every other is a facet of Consciousness 

[Ramasta9]

People on this forum: "I am coining the term" yeah thumbs up to thy ego, and yet that term has been used and known before

Nevertheless, what you speak of is true to some extent, and Osho goes in depth about all these things, no one lays it out better than him, he was a master of masters and exposed all the spiritual traps, gurus and personas, although I would say, in my own words, its both.

Yes there are those, many, especially those on social media who like to record themselves performing rather than simply doing it / being. At the same time, there are those who genuinely do it for strengthening, building the roots of their inner-tree (so to speak), stability of mind through disciplined practice, because that's the (middle way), to use our entire bodies, not just minds, to be able to healthily carry a higher/greater-energy/current.

And this is what happens with most youngsters on the path, they don't have a real grounded guide or guru or support, they take up some practices and indulge in some substances, then shortly after they are a mess again, because they cannot (hold that energy), they have yet to develop their roots, so they are left mentally projecting and conceptualizing everything thinking (they figured it all out), and yet their mum comes in the room or somone challenges their posts or comments and they lose their shit all of a sudden and flip 180 degrees.

Meanwhile a true enlightened master would not be triggered or phased whatsoever, because awakening is one thing, enlightenment is another. Although they are used interchangeably in our modern day, in my understanding it is not exactly the same thing. Awakening is like seeing the truth, exposing the shadows, realizing the oneness, and enlightenment is embodying it, integrating shadows, living it, becoming you in your totality. 

Very few individuals will transform totally overnight, awakening is often the beginning to a new way of living. You are merely sprouting.

Hope this helps

[Ramasta9]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

How long can you meditate for?

Length is of no measure to an effectiveness of a meditation, rather it is depth.

See some can close their eyes and enter a deep state after 30 - 40 minutes, and yet some can do it in 5 - 10 minutes. Once you get to the stage in life where you no longer need to meditate to be truly present and aware, then you are finally entering more of a masters level. When you no longer have to do the act, that's when it truly comes naturally.

Some people can meditate for hours, yet a master is meditating all the time.

Edited 3 hours ago by Ramasta9

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Ramasta9 said:

Length is of no measure to an effectiveness of a meditation, rather it is depth.

See some can close their eyes and enter a deep state after 30 - 40 minutes, and yet some can do it in 5 - 10 minutes. Once you get to the stage in life where you no longer need to meditate to be truly present and aware, then you are finally entering more of a masters level. When you no longer have to do the act, that's when it truly comes naturally.

Some people can meditate for hours, yet a master is meditating all the time.

You can't meditate for 13 days straight without meditating deeply.

[Ramasta9]

@Carl-Richard Nor is meditating for 13 days straight anything to be impressed out