Ralston saying he took massive doses of LSD and it didn't raise C

[UnbornTao]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

More nonsense.

The amount of misinformation you guys create about Consciousness is wild.

It's nonsensical if you assume it is the result of a process. That's why I hinted that it's a paradoxical possibility that's inherently mysterious. You just do - you "take the leap through consciousness." And it is sudden and now. Relative conditions are irrelevant.

In the analogy, how do you explain the waking up from the dream? What do you attribute it to? Do you think it is attributable to some cause or action, or an outcome, or an activity? Like A + B + C = awakening? How could the content of the dream possibly produce the experience of awakening from it? It is not possible to put together some content of the dream to produce a realization of its nature. Everywhere you look and everything you do is the dream - including your body.

This is what "direct" is all about.

[Leo Gura]

@Jowblob Of course my teachings are limited. But they are still better than most of what's out there.

And anyway, my teaching should be one part of your information intake. My teachings are not exclusive. You can and should combine them with dozens of other teachings and perspectives.

I have never claimed to offer a total perspective. You need other perspectives besides mine.

Edited Thursday at 10:42 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

It's nonsensical if you assume it is the result of a process. That's why I hinted that it's a paradoxical possibility that's inherently mysterious. You just do - you "take the leap through consciousness." And it is sudden and now. Relative conditions are irrelevant.

In the analogy, how do you explain the waking up from the dream? What do you attribute it to? Do you think it is attributable to some cause or action, or an outcome, or an activity? Like A + B + C = awakening? How could the content of the dream possibly produce the experience of awakening from it? It is not possible to put together some content of the dream to produce a realization of its nature. Everywhere you look and everything you do is the dream - including your body.

This is what "direct" is all about.

No, this is false. You are parroting Ralston. I know all these arguments he makes and they are empirically false.

DMT is more direct than anything Ralston says or teaches.

The utter absurdity here is that DMT is MORE direct, not less. What's truly indirect is listening to Ralston or doing sober self-inquiry.

I teach about psychedelics because they are hands down the most direct way to higher consciousness that I have seen. And I tried many of the other ways. They just aren't as effective.

The only reason Ralston is able to get far in his work is because he has unique special genetics which no one else has. Which is also why psychedelics don't work well on him. That's what's really going on which none of his students understand. Even Ralston does not understand this.

Edited Thursday at 10:47 PM by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

Theres a reason monk sit there for 40 years and get nothing. Its a constructed trap of the matrix. More authority to follow.

Edited Thursday at 10:41 PM by Hojo

[llumin]

28 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You think that, in order to wake up from the dream, you can do so by drinking coffee within it.

Thanks for the reminder to finish the 3 or so cups left in my carafe! You should try coffee in a lucid dream sometime, my direct experience says it wakes something up. 

13 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

and you don't have any siddhis. 

You are stepping into an ego trap the size of the Grand Canyon. Don't seek siddhis, don't trust someone just because of their attainment. If your journey is purely for the attainment of siddhis, they will never come - or, will be grossly misused should you get lucky. 

Edited Thursday at 10:45 PM by llumin

[UnbornTao]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, this is false. You are parroting Ralston. I know all these arguments he makes and they are empirically false.

DMT is more direct than anything Ralston does.

But that's the point - and that's what’s being questioned.

It's still an experience. You ingest a chemical. You go through things: perceive, feel, think, have a shift in mind state. You come down. You might retain a memory of what you think you went through, and may even interpret the contents of your mind to fit your preconceptions, beliefs, and preferences.

I've had 5-MeO breakthroughs - they blew my mind and were blissful. At first, I even held the notion that they were "enlightenments." But making a sober assessment now, I see that as more wishful thinking on my part than anything real or accurate.

It can be depressing to admit that, from within the dream, nothing can produce the experience of waking up from it - but it's true. How could it? It's not a process! It's not even subject to logic or empiricism, since those belong to the dream's content - and absolute isn't empirical. Yet, paradoxically, having a direct consciousness is possible now - regardless of condition, environment, brain makeup, personality, or anything else that is dream-content.

It just seems to have no attribution, explanation, or cause - hence the mysterious part. Its occurrence - even though it does not really 'occur’ - will probably remain a mystery. Because, again, it doesn't happen as something relative, and the relative is all we can cognize.

Even "more direct" misses the mark and is still relative. There's no "more direct" than direct. Everything is absolutely indirect - except "direct."

Edited Thursday at 11:21 PM by UnbornTao

[Jowblob]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jowblob Of course my teachings are limited. But they are still better than most of what's out there.

And anyway, my teaching should be one part of your information intake. My teachings are not exclusive. You dan combine them with dozens of other teachings.

Your teachings are the best for a particular vibratory level in this matrix as pretty much all teachings are ,but it is just a step. The truth is, some teachings (like yours) give a bigger step than other teachings. But we all should keep in mind that it is just a step .  Hopefully in some near future, you will be blessed with a high base consciousness and receive or develop siddhis or have astral body activation so that we can receive new teachings.

[UnbornTao]

23 minutes ago, llumin said:

Thanks for the reminder to finish the 3 or so cups left in my carafe! You should try coffee in a lucid dream sometime, my direct experience says it wakes something up. 

Again, analogy: The "real-you" ain't something within the dream, nor found within it. It may wake up your "dream character." 

Good old dream-caffeine.

Edited Thursday at 11:09 PM by UnbornTao

[llumin]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You ain't something within the dream, nor found within it. It wakes up your "dream character." 

Does it matter what wakes up or where in 'the dream' "it" resides? Just pour my cup! 

Edited Thursday at 10:55 PM by llumin

[Jowblob]

6 minutes ago, llumin said:

 

You are stepping into an ego trap the size of the Grand Canyon. Don't seek siddhis, don't trust someone just because of their attainment. If your journey is purely for the attainment of siddhis, they will never come - or, will be grossly misused should you get lucky. 

Why do you talk about siddhis when you don't have them? Siddhis come automatically ones you reach a certain base consciousness, it's an indicator of the development of your mind. It's not an ego trap but an indicator of the passage, stop fear mongering

[llumin]

5 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

Why do you talk about siddhis when you don't have them? Siddhis come automatically ones you reach a certain base consciousness, it's an indicator of the development of your mind. It's not an ego trap but an indicator of the passage, stop fear mongering

You speak with such knowledge for something you have no experience with. There is no need for me to prove my capabilities to you or anyone here. All I said was don't seek them. If they come, let them come naturally and don't attach to them. 

Edited Thursday at 11:00 PM by llumin

[Jowblob]

2 minutes ago, llumin said:

You speak of such knowledge for something you have no experience with. 

Be careful with your words, there are some powerfull people here on this forum.  Keep in mind that you're nowhere in the position to say to not seek them like a parrot. Seeking or having a desire is the will of god

[UnbornTao]

15 minutes ago, llumin said:

Does it matter what wakes up or where in 'the dream' "it" resides? Just pour my cup! 

Where are the baristas?

[Davino]

The conversation is just so stupid I avoid to enter anymore. Only fools would hold such a view. 

If psychedelics don't raise consciousness, what they do? Nothing, they decrease it? Please come on!

[Leo Gura]

Why do you think I don't teach what Ralston teaches? You think it's just because I'm too arrogant to follow it? No. It's because I deeply tested what Ralston teaches and realized it to be highly ineffective for the typical human.

I teach what I teach because it is the most effective thing I found after testing the entire spiritual domain for 10 years.

Self-inquiry and meditation are highly ineffective unless you have special genetics. Which is why so few people succeed via those methods.

I have tested these things to exhaustion, way more than they deserve. I have been very fair and patient with the dogmatic techniques.

There is no way I could have the understanding of God/Consciousness/Infinity that I have without psychedelics. So what Ralston is saying is flat out nonsense. He can't deny what I am conscious of and clearly understand.

I have a profound understanding of Infinity beyond almost any human. How do you explain that I have this understanding? I didn't read it in any book.

None of Ralston's students has a deeper grasp of Infinity than me. This includes Brendon.

The only reason I understand Infinity so well is because I took enough psychedelics to kill an elephant. This isn't theory or my belief. I actually did it.

Edited Thursday at 11:45 PM by Leo Gura

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The only reason I understand Infinity so well is because I took enough psychedelics to kill an elephant. This isn't theory or my belief. I actually did it.

I thought you practiced self-inquiry/contemplation and meditation during your trips. Why then does it work so well for you and not for any hippie who smokes DMT? Could it be your genetics too?

[Nick_98]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-inquiry and meditation are highly ineffective unless you have special genetics. Which is why so few people succeed via those methods.

I have tested these things to exhaustion, way more than they deserve. I have been very fair and patient with the dogmatic techniques.

 

I highly agree. Even tho I have never taken psychedelics or can't claim I have a direct experience of anything. I have exhausted ralston's techniques in the books , meditated and self inquired and haven't gained any grasp of the truth. The question What is ? which you ask when you inquire doesn't make any sense in your normal state of conscious. For example if you ask what is a couch? Your mind will reply " A couch is just a couch you are so dumb to ask this question" , and if you ask " what is the universe ? " it makes no sense , the universe is just that. From a normal state of consciousness these questions do not provoke you to penetrate deep into the present moment and even if you did , you will not penetrate deep enough to grasp anything. At least I'm speaking about my experience. Ralston's techniques have failed Horribly with me and I have tried them a thousand times.

Edited yesterday at 01:15 AM by Nick_98

[Hojo]

These techniques are for people who were born being told the truth. We are born into lies. If you had a perfectly loving society then maybe self enquiry works.

Edited yesterday at 01:12 AM by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I thought you practiced self-inquiry/contemplation and meditation during your trips. Why then does it work so well for you and not for any hippie who smokes DMT? Could it be your genetics too?

My genetics is a factor, but also I've done so much philosophical work, like 15 years worth.

Psychedelics work on most people. Most people just don't apply them seriously. They trip for fun a few times in their life. I turned psychedelica into a hardcare existential practice.

What hippie has done over 40 different  psychedelics over 500 times, combined with 15 years of deep contemplation?

[Terell Kirby]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What hippie has done over 40 different  psychedelics over 500 times, combined with 15 years of deep contemplation?

You are truly in a rare position.

I hope to take advantage of your psych retreat to get at least a fragment / taste of this