Leo Gura

Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

961 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Chat GPT

if A woman is locked in a room and a man is locked in a room who will go crazy faster with data?

While no study can precisely measure who "goes crazy faster," data from correctional and isolation-related research consistently shows that women are more vulnerable to the psychological trauma of isolation and therefore experience the onset of severe negative symptoms more rapidly.

This is not a reflection of inherent weakness, but of how social and relational needs interact with the extreme stress of isolation.

Here is the data-driven breakdown:

Psychological TraitGender with Higher Vulnerability/SymptomsData/Reasoning

Pre-Existing ConditionsWomenStudies consistently show justice-involved women have significantly higher rates of mental health disorders (including anxiety and depression) and Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)/trauma than men. Isolation exacerbates pre-existing conditions more quickly.

Suicidal Ideation/Self-HarmWomenA study on people in jail found that those who identified as non-men reported a higher prevalence of lifetime and jail-specific suicidal ideation than men. Solitary confinement is linked to half of all prison suicides, and the presence of high-risk individuals (often women with severe trauma histories) in isolation indicates faster deterioration toward crisis.

Sensitivity to LonelinessWomenGeneral population longitudinal studies on social isolation and loneliness consistently suggest women are more sensitive to the negative mental health effects of poor social connections (loneliness and social isolation). Isolation severs core relational needs more acutely for women.

Initial Psychological ResponseWomenA longitudinal study of psychological impact during a period of severe confinement (COVID-19 lockdown) found that females had significantly higher scores than males in almost all negative psychological measures (stress, anxiety, and avoidance symptoms) at the beginning of the confinement period. This suggests a faster initial reaction or emotional volatility to the onset of isolation.

Isolation's Effect on DepressionWomenA longitudinal study on college students found that for females, both social isolation and loneliness significantly and independently predicted increased depressive symptoms. For males, only social isolation was a significant predictor, suggesting that the subjective feeling of loneliness has a more critical, faster link to depression in women.

Conclusion

The data suggests that a woman is likely to experience severe psychological decline faster than a man. Her higher baseline rates of trauma and mental illness make her more fragile in a high-stress environment, and her greater sensitivity to loneliness and loss of social connection means the core trauma of isolation will trigger a rapid onset of severe symptoms, including increased risk of self-harm and suicidal ideation.

Its very obvious woman are way more social than men.

 

That's nice but I really don't think it's real world.


 

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Stop polluting this thread with irrelevant noise.


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15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop polluting this thread with irrelevant noise.

I think its relevant as it started because group think or a retreat was questioned.  So being alone was questioned. Then women vs men being alone.  You should address this. Whats a thread if it can't run freely.  We could have restricted it but you clearly aren't giving any solid answers to the retreat other than we are gonna smoke dope.  So I say let it fly  

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

. Belief always involves doubt, ask any Christian.

I

Dude what world are you living in? Yeah ask any Christian if they doubt that Jesus is their savior.

I don't have an allergy to belief it just won't lead you to Truth because it's a concept.  You seem to have this bias towards defending religion and that's fine.   I'm just not sure why yet 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Dude what world are you living in? Yeah ask any Christian if they doubt that Jesus is their savior.

Have you never heard a Christian struggle with their belief? 

Regardless, when somebody tells you it's possible to get enlightened and you get curious and decide to practice, you don't sit down and practice for hundreds of hours if you believe it's impossible. You believe it is possible, and you arguably believe it is true. And you keep practicing despite the lack of "direct evidence". You only have breadcrumb trails, intuitions, glimpses, intellectual conviction, belief.

 

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You seem to have this bias towards defending religion and that's fine.   I'm just not sure why yet 

Because you are religious. I'm defending you (and myself) :)


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7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Have you never heard a Christian struggle with their belief? 

 

No I haven't.  

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Have you never heard a Christian struggle with their belief? 

Regardless, when somebody tells you it's possible to get enlightened and you get curious and decide to practice, you don't sit down and practice for hundreds of hours if you believe it's impossible. You believe it is possible, and you arguably believe it is truem

 

I didn't   I just did it. And guess what?  It wasn't 100 hours I might have been 4-8 tops.  There wasn't a belief. So you're really grasping at straws here. .but even if...even If you really want to call this a New Age Religion - then I would say it is the culmination of science and spirituality combined.  Or Science and mysticism combined as you put it.  It is far far different than Christianity and you know it.  I don't know who you are defending - maybe its even you.  But you know it deep down.  I know this first hand as I mentioned in the political forum my gf is a Christian and hardcore at that.  So I know the Christian mind. 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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1 hour ago, Hojo said:

Chat GPT

if A woman is locked in a room and a man is locked in a room who will go crazy faster with data?

While no study can precisely measure who "goes crazy faster," data from correctional and isolation-related research consistently shows that women are more vulnerable to the psychological trauma of isolation and therefore experience the onset of severe negative symptoms more rapidly.

This is not a reflection of inherent weakness, but of how social and relational needs interact with the extreme stress of isolation.

Here is the data-driven breakdown:

Psychological TraitGender with Higher Vulnerability/SymptomsData/Reasoning

Pre-Existing ConditionsWomenStudies consistently show justice-involved women have significantly higher rates of mental health disorders (including anxiety and depression) and Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)/trauma than men. Isolation exacerbates pre-existing conditions more quickly.

Suicidal Ideation/Self-HarmWomenA study on people in jail found that those who identified as non-men reported a higher prevalence of lifetime and jail-specific suicidal ideation than men. Solitary confinement is linked to half of all prison suicides, and the presence of high-risk individuals (often women with severe trauma histories) in isolation indicates faster deterioration toward crisis.

Sensitivity to LonelinessWomenGeneral population longitudinal studies on social isolation and loneliness consistently suggest women are more sensitive to the negative mental health effects of poor social connections (loneliness and social isolation). Isolation severs core relational needs more acutely for women.

Initial Psychological ResponseWomenA longitudinal study of psychological impact during a period of severe confinement (COVID-19 lockdown) found that females had significantly higher scores than males in almost all negative psychological measures (stress, anxiety, and avoidance symptoms) at the beginning of the confinement period. This suggests a faster initial reaction or emotional volatility to the onset of isolation.

Isolation's Effect on DepressionWomenA longitudinal study on college students found that for females, both social isolation and loneliness significantly and independently predicted increased depressive symptoms. For males, only social isolation was a significant predictor, suggesting that the subjective feeling of loneliness has a more critical, faster link to depression in women.

Conclusion

The data suggests that a woman is likely to experience severe psychological decline faster than a man. Her higher baseline rates of trauma and mental illness make her more fragile in a high-stress environment, and her greater sensitivity to loneliness and loss of social connection means the core trauma of isolation will trigger a rapid onset of severe symptoms, including increased risk of self-harm and suicidal ideation.

Its very obvious woman are way more social than men.

 

I typed in the same prompt you did.

"if A woman is locked in a room and a man is locked in a room who will go crazy faster with data?"

And I got a TOTALLY different answer. I also don't have a ChatGPT account, so it isn't trained on me or anything. This is just generic ChatGPT prompt.

ChatGPT said:

That’s an interesting question — but the answer isn’t as simple as choosing “man” or “woman.”

If you mean who would psychologically deteriorate faster in isolation, research in psychology suggests that it depends much more on the individual than on gender alone. Here’s a summary of what data and studies tell us:

🧠 Key factors that influence mental decline in isolation

Personality traits – People who are more extroverted or anxious tend to struggle more in isolation, regardless of gender.

Coping skills and resilience – Individuals with stronger emotional regulation and stress-management skills fare better.

Prior experience with solitude – People used to spending time alone (e.g., artists, researchers, monks) tend to adapt better.

Social support perception – Feeling connected to others, even virtually or in memory, buffers against mental decline.

Biological and hormonal factors – While some gender differences exist in stress responses (e.g., cortisol release patterns), these differences are small compared to psychological and environmental ones.

📊 What the data say

Studies on solitary confinement and isolation experiments (e.g., polar expeditions, space simulation habitats) show both men and women experience anxiety, depression, and cognitive issues, but no consistent gender-based difference in the rate of decline.

A few small studies suggest women may maintain social and emotional regulation slightly better due to stronger stress-buffering oxytocin responses, while men might show more behavioral agitation — but the data are mixed and context-dependent.

🧩 Conclusion

There’s no strong scientific evidence that one gender “goes crazy faster” than the other when locked in a room.
What matters most are individual psychological factors, coping strategies, and prior experience with isolation — not gender.

Would you like me to show you specific research studies or statistics on isolation and mental health differences between men and women?


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46 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No I haven't.

Fascinating. The statistics say around 2/3rds report experiencing doubt. And that's subjective reports, in a culture where you allege doubt should be non-existent and presumably shunned and repressed out of the psyche.

 

46 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I didn't   I just did it. And guess what?  It wasn't 100 hours I might have been 4-8 tops.  There wasn't a belief. So you're really grasping at straws here.

Surely you didn't get enlightened though, you got a glimpse. Didn't you continue practicing afterwards? Didn't you see where it could lead? Didn't you have a belief now (that was strengthened) that this too became possible?

A belief also formed when you merely became curious, but certainly more fleeting and with less conviction.

 

46 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

but even if...even If you really want to call this a New Age Religion - then I would say it is the culmination of science and spirituality combined.  Or Science and mysticism combined as you put it.  It is far far different than Christianity and you know it. 

Science and mysticism, combined with concepts and practices you got from religion, with science which you got from religion, with mysticism which you got from religion. Works for me :P Nevertheless, certainly postmodern, individualist, even quite Western.

 

46 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't know who you are defending - maybe its even you.  But you know it deep down.  I know this first hand as I mentioned in the political forum my gf is a Christian and hardcore at that.  So I know the Christian mind. 

You know a Christian.

There is this course in university that causes all this trouble, my favorite course of the entire degree. It went by the name "Spirituality, Religion and Existential Questions". Today it goes by a more pompous name ("Psychology of Religion" or something). I was allowed to write an essay about my spiritual experiences and also do a research paper on how psychology students understand the term "religion". Go figure.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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1 hour ago, Hojo said:

Chat GPT

if A woman is locked in a room and a man is locked in a room who will go crazy faster with data?

While no study can precisely measure who "goes crazy faster," data from correctional and isolation-related research consistently shows that women are more vulnerable to the psychological trauma of isolation and therefore experience the onset of severe negative symptoms more rapidly.

This is not a reflection of inherent weakness, but of how social and relational needs interact with the extreme stress of isolation.

Here is the data-driven breakdown:

Psychological TraitGender with Higher Vulnerability/SymptomsData/Reasoning

Pre-Existing ConditionsWomenStudies consistently show justice-involved women have significantly higher rates of mental health disorders (including anxiety and depression) and Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs)/trauma than men. Isolation exacerbates pre-existing conditions more quickly.

Suicidal Ideation/Self-HarmWomenA study on people in jail found that those who identified as non-men reported a higher prevalence of lifetime and jail-specific suicidal ideation than men. Solitary confinement is linked to half of all prison suicides, and the presence of high-risk individuals (often women with severe trauma histories) in isolation indicates faster deterioration toward crisis.

Sensitivity to LonelinessWomenGeneral population longitudinal studies on social isolation and loneliness consistently suggest women are more sensitive to the negative mental health effects of poor social connections (loneliness and social isolation). Isolation severs core relational needs more acutely for women.

Initial Psychological ResponseWomenA longitudinal study of psychological impact during a period of severe confinement (COVID-19 lockdown) found that females had significantly higher scores than males in almost all negative psychological measures (stress, anxiety, and avoidance symptoms) at the beginning of the confinement period. This suggests a faster initial reaction or emotional volatility to the onset of isolation.

Isolation's Effect on DepressionWomenA longitudinal study on college students found that for females, both social isolation and loneliness significantly and independently predicted increased depressive symptoms. For males, only social isolation was a significant predictor, suggesting that the subjective feeling of loneliness has a more critical, faster link to depression in women.

Conclusion

The data suggests that a woman is likely to experience severe psychological decline faster than a man. Her higher baseline rates of trauma and mental illness make her more fragile in a high-stress environment, and her greater sensitivity to loneliness and loss of social connection means the core trauma of isolation will trigger a rapid onset of severe symptoms, including increased risk of self-harm and suicidal ideation.

Its very obvious woman are way more social than men.

 

I'm not sure where you got your answers from but when I asked AI (Claude AI) I got this -

 

There's no clear scientific answer to this - individual variation would matter far more than sex/gender.

Research on solitary confinement shows that psychological deterioration depends on factors like:

Individual differences (regardless of gender):

Pre-existing mental health conditions

Previous trauma or stress exposure

Personality traits (introversion vs. extroversion)

Coping mechanisms and resilience

Age and cognitive flexibility

Situational factors:

Duration and conditions of confinement

Whether there's any sensory stimulation

Previous experience with isolation

Access to activities, reading materials, etc.

While there are some gender differences in mental health statistics generally (women have higher rates of depression and anxiety disorders, men have higher rates of substance abuse), these population-level trends don't reliably predict individual responses to extreme stress like solitary confinement.

Solitary confinement is considered harmful to virtually everyone when prolonged, with documented effects including anxiety, depression, hallucinations, cognitive impairment, and increased suicide risk - affecting people of all genders.

The most honest answer is: it would depend entirely on the specific individuals involved, not their gender.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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My AI allergy is 🤧 blistering 🤧 up.


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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@Inliytened1 @Emerald

These LLM responses are really eye opening regarding its informational consistency.


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Surely you didn't get enlightened though, you got a glimpse. Didn't you continue practicing afterwards? Didn't you see where it could lead?

No that was enlightenment.   The realization of No-Self was the first  im giving you total hours of actual meditation it could have been 16 but definitely no more than that for the whole thing.  Once Consciousness was expanded the door was open.  Further realizations didn't require a practice. I could be driving to work or sitting at my desk.  Or meditating.  The awakenings were over a 2 week period and then again the final one bout 2 months later this time spontaneously although I was doing some meditation in between.  But the main enlightenment happened after just a day or two of meditation.  The final one which you so sorely dispute.  Solipsism. Happened on my way to work actually and I had to pull over. Because I realized I was completely alone.  But let's leave that one out as that was the one two months later 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Can moderators on a computer edit the comments in question so we see a spoiler bar we can click instead of the entire text? Ty.


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No that was enlightenment.   The reakization of No-Self was the first  im giving you total hours of actual meditation it could have been 16 but definitely no more than that for the whole thing.  Once Consciousness was expanded the door was open.  Further realizations didn't require a practice. I could be driving to work or sitting at my desk.  Or meditating.  The awakenings were over a 2 week period and then again the final ineabout 2 months later this time spontaneously although I was doing some meditation in between.  But the main enlightenment happened after just a day or two of meditation.  The final one which you so sorely dispute.  Solipsism. Happened on my way to work actually and I had to pull over. Because I realized I was completely alone.  But let's leave that one out as that was the one two months later 

It doesn't detract from my point again, but anyways: so you have complete non-doership right now? You can sit still and go into a state free of thoughts virtually instantly?


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It doesn't detract from my point again, but anyways: so you have complete non-doership right now? You can sit still and go into a state free of thoughts virtually instantly?

I'm lucid but no I can't access Infinite Consciousness at will although I can feel it beginning I can make the beginning of it start but it won't go further because I have to die for that and the ego doesn't want to die  To access that level of Consciousness again I would have to die which now the ego cannot be caught by surprise or curiosity again. It doesn't work that way. 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Basically in a nutshell. The question of who will go insane batshit crazy first isn't entirely dependent on sex, it's influenced by a variety of psychological and physiological factors. It depends on the person. Like smoking cannabis, you can't just say cannabis makes you lazy and unproductive. It depends on the person and each individual will react differently.

It's dangerous to lump a gernarlization claim like this one because it dismisses and overlooks many other relational factors.

 Problem solved, no more bickering 

Edited by ExploringReality

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6 hours ago, Emerald said:

There are serious consequences to foregoing basic human needs and spiritually bypassing them.

That is why I see this glorification of transcending social needs in a similar vein to how Breatharians see themselves as transcendent of the need for food.

They didn't really transcend those needs of course. They're either lying to themselves and others and still eating.... or they're not eating and in the process of eventually starving to death.

Just like someone who claims to have transcended the need for human interaction. They're either lying to themselves and others and still socializing (like on this forum)... or they're not socializing and reaping the psychological (and physical) consequences of not having a social support system.

 

My whole life I felt a little bit out of place for how little social interaction I need to be happy. 
Yes there is a risk many people liking solitude are bypassing something.
So you really have to be honest and look deep inside.

But yes, there is a possibility that one's particular brain, personality is that of "lone wolf".
I felt gaslighted for years by society, always feeling a little bit ashamed.

And I remember some few years ago I watched netflix documentary "Chimp empire" about different chimps, apes, bonobos, gorrillas and their social interactions. It was mindblowing how they resemble human behaviours. And even among chimps there are less social individuals.

But especially Orangutans are very solitary. They spend about 90% alone. Let's embrace our inner Orangutans for those that it genuinely resonates. Don't be gaslighted/conditioned into believing you NEED socializing BECAUSE YOU ARE HUMAN. Humans are so so complex and diverse. Genuinely check within what do you want. And don't get stuck in any end of the spectrum as your identity. One day you can be a social bonobo, another day you can be a lone orangutan. Lol.

So I kinda want to defend @Leo Gura here. The message of "people are so important in life" or "happiness only true when shared" or "humans are social apes" etc. - you can find it anywhere, any family member will agree, any movie, it is engrained in our culture, it is the default. So it was very very valuable to hear Leo clearly speak about how much bullshit there is in socializing culture, and actually open a way to fully question it and actually think for myself regardless of culture. 

We rarelly speak how much unnecesarry suffering may be created for naturally solitary people feeling slightly ashamed of their introversion by the very harsh social default of our culture.

Edited by Arthogaan

In the Vast Expanse everything that arises is Lively Awakened Awareness.

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33 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm lucid but no I can't access Infinite Consciousness at will although I can feel it beginning I can make the beginning of it start but it won't go further because I have to die for that and the ego doesn't want to die  To access that level of Consciousness again I would have to die which now the ego cannot be caught by surprise or curiosity again. It doesn't work that way. 

Ah, the limbo state. Welcome brother. I'll be there for a couple of more years probably (is what the ego self says; the true self wants to say no that's not true, you're already there 😼).

But yeah, even if you decided to meditate for 1 minute and your crown chakra exploded into a supermassive black hole, I still believe you formed a belief to get to that place, but yes in this case, it's probably not a belief you would count as "pathological" in the same vein you would accuse dogmatic Christians of having. But a belief nonetheless.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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52 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Ah, the limbo state. Welcome brother. I'll be there for a couple of more years probably (is what the ego self says; the true self wants to say no that's not true, you're already there 😼).

But yeah, even if you decided to meditate for 1 minute and your crown chakra exploded into a supermassive black hole, I still believe you formed a belief to get to that place, but yes in this case, it's probably not a belief you would count as "pathological" in the same vein you would accuse dogmatic Christians of having. But a belief nonetheless.

Thank you brother glad to know you're there too.  I wouldn't call it a limbo state.  There is no reason to access God Mode so to speak or Divine Consciousness unless you are leaving the dream or you are awakening in my book.  You're awake.   So that's it.

Edited by Inliytened1

 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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42 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But yeah, even if you decided to meditate for 1 minute and your crown chakra exploded into a supermassive black hole, I still believe you formed a belief to get to that place, but yes in this case, it's probably not a belief you would count as "pathological" in the same vein you would accuse dogmatic Christians of having. But a belief nonetheless.

Yep - a completely agnostic attitude towards a proposition dont make you use your time and rescources on things.

"I have no clue or belief about what kind of God exist  or whether God exist at all, but let me use my finite and precious resources on checking whether what Leo said is true or not and let me not prioritize checking any other claims over it"

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