Why one would not defend Israel ?

[Lyubov]

17 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I disagree it's just that you have terrorist organizations running your governments. 

You guys are colonizers and thieves and zionists though. Anyone relative to you (Israel) appears as a terrorist because it exposes your thievery and you don't liek that so you have to play victim. You guys stole your land and had to justify it through religious fantasies and made up history. Do a DNA test. These people lived in Europe for 800+ years. 

[Elliott]

19 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

 

With that being said, the creation of Israel was a response to the Holocaust and the world’s failures to protect Jews.

Are you familiar with The Haavara Agreement 

"an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist organizations signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine between 1933 and 1939.[1]"

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

Are you familiar with The Haavara Agreement 

"an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist organizations signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000 German Jews to Palestine between 1933 and 1939.[1]"

Yeah, 60,000. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the 6,000,000 the Nazis ended up exterminating.

Yes the Nazis had a few half-assed ideas to deport Jews before WW2 broke out, but ultimately their end goal was always the extermination of the Jews. Otherwise the Final Solution wouldn’t have been implemented. 

I sometimes I feel like I’m going crazy in my defence of the utter depravity and evil of the Holocaust. You don’t even have to be a huge simp for Judaism to realise such an event shouldn’t befall anybody, let alone millions upon millions of defenceless European peasants.

 Other cultures have suffered trauma in the past, for sure, but the Holocaust was uniquely evil in its scale, speed and pure dehumanising terror used to enact it. If you, today, knew that within living memory a nation tried to wipe out literally your entire race and everyone in it (and damn nearly succeed too), you’d be pretty fucked up too. 

[Elliott]

6 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Yeah, 60,000. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the 6,000,000 the Nazis ended up exterminating.

Yes the Nazis had a few half-assed ideas to deport Jews before WW2 broke out, but ultimately their end goal was always the extermination of the Jews. Otherwise the Final Solution wouldn’t have been implemented. 

I sometimes I feel like I’m going crazy in my defence of the utter depravity and evil of the Holocaust. You don’t even have to be a huge simp for Judaism to realise such an event shouldn’t befall anybody, let alone millions upon millions of defenceless European peasants.

 Other cultures have suffered trauma in the past, for sure, but the Holocaust was uniquely evil in its scale, speed and pure dehumanising terror used to enact it. If you, today, knew that within living memory a nation tried to wipe out literally your entire race and everyone in it (and damn nearly succeed too), you’d be pretty fucked up too. 

I think you're changing the subject, The Haavara Agreement was the beginning of modern Israel, it was before the Holocaust, Ashkenazi zionism and colonialism was before the Holocaust. 

 

"Zionist Association for Germany was a Zionist organisation in Germany that was formed in 1897 in Cologne by Max Bodenheimer, together with David Wolffsohn and Fabius Schach.[1] I"

"Max Isidor Bodenheimer settled in Palestine in 1935."

 Together with Moritz Levy, David Wolffsohn and Rahel Apfel, they founded the "National-Jewish Association", from which the Zionist Association for Germany emerged in 1897.[1] In 1893 he published the pamphlet Volks- oder Salonjudenthum? Schach attended the 1st Zionist Congress in 1897 and took part in the formulation of the Basel Program.[2]

 

Basel Program

"Zionism seeks to establish a home in Palestine for the Jewish people, secured under public law.[6]

To achieve this goal, the Congress envisages the following means:

1. The expedient promotion of the settlement of Jewish agriculturists, artisans, and tradesmen in Palestine.

2. The organization and bringing together of all Jews through local and general events, according to the laws of the various countries.

3. The strengthening of Jewish feeling and national consciousness.

4. Preparatory steps for obtaining the governmental approval which is necessary to the achievement of the Zionist purpose."

 

"The Basel Program was the first manifesto of the Zionist movement, drafted between 27 and 30 August 1897 and adopted unanimously at the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland, on 30 August 1897."

 

 

 

Even without all that, how does the Germans killing jews, justify giving the jews Palestine, taking it from Palestinians

Edited yesterday at 12:52 PM by Elliott

[Inliytened1]

On 10/2/2025 at 1:51 AM, Twentyfirst said:

You guys let women pretend to be men lol

Now you guys are the chicks lmao

Build statues of Tate, save the West

Some people are born in the wrong body.  Allowing it is probably the best thing about it not the worst.  

[Inliytened1]

On 10/2/2025 at 4:16 PM, Lyubov said:

You guys are colonizers and thieves and zionists though. Anyone relative to you (Israel) appears as a terrorist because it exposes your thievery and you don't liek that so you have to play victim. You guys stole your land and had to justify it through religious fantasies and made up history. Do a DNA test. These people lived in Europe for 800+ years. 

You are brainwashed to think the land was stolen.  It was won via war.  We are colonizers and thieves and zionists? Which one is it?   Are zionists thieves? Look dude- the Jews have been put through enough hell to know they needed to fight and take what they want to be theirs.  Just like any other nation.  Just like the United States over Great Britain..just like  Alexander the Great and many other leaders that took land via conquest.   Stop bitching and complaining.  Israel withdrew in 2005 and Hamas proceeded to pound Israel via rocket rather than seek peace.  So you see things through a bias lens.  Stop letting the left feed you stuff without taste testing the food.  Some food needs to be spit out.

[Lyubov]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are brainwashed to think the land was stolen.  It was won via war.  We are colonizers and thieves and zionists? Which one is it?   Are zionists thieves? Look dude- the Jews have been put through enough hell to know they needed to fight and take what they want to be theirs.  Just like any other nation.  Just like the United States over Great Britain..just like  Alexander the Great and many other leaders that took land via conquest.   Stop bitching and complaining.  Israel withdrew in 2005 and Hamas proceeded to pound Israel via rocket rather than seek peace.  So you see things through a bias lens.  Stop letting the left feed you stuff without taste testing the food.  Some food needs to be spit out.

That's correct. You killed/kicked out the natives and then won a war when the surrounding groups wanted to hold you accountable and reclaim the land you stole. All three. It's not hard to comprehend. Yes, zionists are thieves because it's an ideology built on displacing and stealing land that is not yours through lying to yourself and making up fairytales how you have a claim to it. That is correct, the USA is a state built on stolen land. At least you are halfway honest with yourself in acknowledging you stole the land through war and conquest. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

Peace is something built on mutual understand and resolution. Peace with Israel is not possible in the middle east because it requires fundamentally lying to oneself and excusing thievery and land stealing. There is no terms for peace on such a foundation. This doesn't start in 2005. It started when your grandparents stole land. If someone came into your house and stole it from you (your ancestors did with Israel btw) there would be no negotiating because you know rightfully in reality you were simply stolen from. It's not even up for discussion. If I cam along with a gun and stole everything you own, you deep down know there is no such thing as negotiating here because you were simply stolen from and know who is in the wrong. This is what  Israel did in order to exist. It's a country built on stolen land backed by the USA and UK. These Europeans then have to spin a crazy tale based in their religion to stomach living such a lie about how god gave them the land and how they are natives (they are not). Israel will have to fight to wipe out enough people in Palestine but they will always be a threat since they are outnumbered in the region. And with the way the world is waking up to this, and politics is changing in the USA, there is an existential threat to Israel if the USA eventually drops support for Israel (Hopefully in the next 10-20 years but you never know). Israel is vastly unpopular and the younger generations see right through all the zionist lies, it's just a matter of time until the older generations who hold the power pass on. Israel needs to start wars and destroy everyone around them in order to try and stop this or get a head start. There are long term hidden costs for states/nations that live lies like. The USA is starting to pay up now for theirs. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lyubov

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

That's correct. You killed/kicked out the natives and then won a war when the surrounding groups wanted to hold you accountable and reclaim the land you stole. All three. It's not hard to comprehend. Yes, zionists are thieves because it;s an ideology on displacing and stealing land that is not yours. That is correct, the USA is a state built on stolen land. At least you are halfway honest with yourself in acknowledging you stole the land through war and conquest. 

And you seem to have a problem with the survival game  War and conquest is going to exist for a long time..this is because of the different levels of consciousness that different people are at or.just their general disagreement.  Jews were almost wiped out and they learned and adapted. Don't hate them for it.  Hate the game.  Which you aren't doing.  Ever heard the saying Don't hate the player hate the game? Well it applies here.  The Palestinians have the same opportunities they just put their trust in organizations like Hamas.  Who by the way seemed to have agreed to a deal to return the hostages.  Let's see what happens but I have little faith they will keep their word..their word is always half baked. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[Lyubov]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

And you seem to have a problem with the surviva game  War and conquest is going to exist for a long time..this is because of the different levels of consciousness that different people are at or.just their general disagreement.  Jews were almost wiped out and they learned and adapted. Don't hate them for it.  Hate the game.  Which you aren't doing.  Ever heard the saying Don't hate the player hate the game? Well it applies here.  The Palestinians have the same opportunities they just put their trust in organizations like Hamas.  Who by the way seemed to have agreed to a deal to return the hostages.  Let's see what happens but I have little faith they will keep their word..their word is always half baked. 

Takes like this right here is why everyone hates Israel 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Lyubov said:

Takes like this right here is why everyone hates Israel 

Everyone doesn't hate Israel.

[Inliytened1]

@Lyubov If you somehow think Hamas is higher consciousness than Israel you are in for a surprise.   

Edited 1 hour ago by Inliytened1

[zazen]

@Inliytened1 Did you love it when Hamas played the survival game? Or did you hate it…it’s just a game no?

Israel withdrew from Gaza but didn’t withdraw control over Gaza.  I take your house, leave it “withdraw” - then lock up the doors, block the chimney, control your wifi and water - of course your gonna try slingshot me from the window and shout for help. I’m supposed to be surprised why?

If I’m Muslim but not native to Saudi Arabia do I get to claim it as my home due to religious affiliation? I would like some of that Oil Sheikh money so I can retire haha. That’s what a New Yorker Jew from Brooklyn looks like when he comes to “settle”.

@Lyubov 💯spit your shit bro. You giving me this guys energy - I feel the energy coming through yo chakras

 

Edited 1 hour ago by zazen

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Inliytened1 Did you love it when Hamas played the survival game? Or did you hate it…it’s just a game no?

Israel withdrew from Gaza but didn’t withdraw control over Gaza.  I take your house, leave it “withdraw” - then lock up the doors, block the chimney, control your wifi and water -

They controlled the borders but Hamas controlled the government in Gaza.  Hamas could have sought peaceful means to increase the control of what came in and out but they didn't do that they immediately launched rockets.   

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They controlled the borders but Hamas controlled the government in Gaza.  Hamas could have sought peaceful means to increase the control of what came in and out but they didn't do that they immediately launched rockets.   

Wrong, they offered a long term ceasefire in exchange for an end to the blockade and israel ignored this. 

Israel itself admitted the purpose of the blockade was to crush the economy to punish the entire population in leaked emails.

Now explain the West Bank. The PA gave up armed resistance to Israel and actually engaged in security collaboration, israel let settlers go on rampages stealing and killing civilians.

[Nivsch]

36 minutes ago, zazen said:

Israel withdrew from Gaza but didn’t withdraw control over Gaza

What would you do otherwise?

Say you are the Israeli PM in August 2005 and for the next couple of years.

Edited 49 minutes ago by Nivsch

[zazen]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They controlled the borders but Hamas controlled the government in Gaza.  Hamas could have sought peaceful means to increase the control of what came in and out but they didn't do that they immediately launched rockets.   

Brother, I prompted Chat GPT to give me the objective sequence of events causing the first rocket to be launched and why:

- 2005 – Israel’s “Disengagement”

Israel withdraws settlers and troops from Gaza unilaterally (not as part of any peace process).

It keeps full control of Gaza’s borders, coastline, and airspace — meaning it can decide what and who goes in or out.

Gaza’s airport remains closed; its economy, already weak, becomes almost entirely dependent on Israeli crossings.

- January 2006 – Hamas Wins Democratic Elections

The elections were monitored by international observers and deemed free and fair.

Hamas wins a majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council, defeating Fatah — largely due to Fatah’s corruption and the public’s frustration with the failed Oslo process.

- February–March 2006 – International Boycott

The U.S., EU, and Israel refuse to recognize the new Hamas-led government unless it renounces violence, recognizes Israel, and accepts previous peace accords.

When Hamas doesn’t comply (arguing that recognition must be mutual and tied to 1967 borders), Israel and the West cut off all aid and withhold tax revenues owed to the Palestinian Authority.

This plunges Gaza and the West Bank into financial crisis.

- Spring–Summer 2006 – Escalation and Blockade

Israel begins targeted assassinations of Hamas officials and conducts military incursions into Gaza.

On June 9, 2006, Israeli shelling kills an entire Palestinian family (the Ghalia family) on a Gaza beach — a turning point that enrages Palestinians.

On June 25, 2006, Hamas militants capture Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in response to ongoing Israeli raids.

Israel responds with “Operation Summer Rains,” invading Gaza, bombing power plants, bridges, and civilian infrastructure.

The blockade formally begins — crossings closed, movement frozen, goods restricted.

Late 2006 – Early 2007 – The First Major Rocket Waves

After months of siege and airstrikes, Hamas and other factions begin launching Qassam rockets into southern Israel.

These were primitive, largely symbolic weapons — militarily ineffective but politically expressive: “You can bomb us from the air, but we’re not entirely powerless.”

- 2007 – U.S.-Backed Coup Attempt and Hamas Takeover

The U.S. (via the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority) attempts to oust Hamas with arms and funding.

Fighting breaks out between Hamas and Fatah; Hamas defeats Fatah in Gaza.

Israel and Egypt then impose a total blockade of Gaza, sealing it off entirely — and that’s when the current era of isolation begins.

Summary

Hamas did not start firing rockets the moment it came to power.

First came the boycott and sanctions.

Then Israeli incursions and assassinations.

Then the Ghalia beach massacre and Operation Summer Rains.

Then came the first sustained rocket response.

So the sequence wasn’t “Hamas elected → Hamas attacks → Israel blockades.”

It was:

Hamas elected → Israel blockades → Israel attacks → Hamas retaliates.

End Quote

——-

Not sure how accurate that is but open more info.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

Wrong, they offered a long term ceasefire in exchange for an end to the blockade and israel ignored this. 

Israel itself admitted the purpose of the blockade was to crush the economy to punish the entire population in leaked emails.

Now explain the West Bank. The PA gave up armed resistance to Israel and actually engaged in security collaboration, israel let settlers go on rampages stealing and killing civilians.

Well let's let AI answer:

Details on Hamas's response to the 2005 withdrawal:

PA-led ceasefire endorsement (March 2005): In February 2005, PA President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared a ceasefire to end the Second Intifada. Hamas announced it would endorse this ceasefire in March, a few months before the Israeli withdrawal was complete.

Continued armed resistance: Despite the ceasefire endorsement, Hamas's military wing did not cease all attacks. In the immediate aftermath of the Israeli withdrawal in September 2005, Hamas and other militant groups fired rockets into Israel and continued to call for armed resistance.

Withdrawal framed as a victory: The unilateral nature of Israel's withdrawal allowed Hamas to portray it as a victory achieved through armed resistance, rather than diplomacy. This framing bolstered Hamas's popularity, which contributed to its victory in the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections.

No long-term truce: In the years following the disengagement, Hamas repeatedly proposed long-term truces to Israel in exchange for specific concessions, such as withdrawal from occupied territories or lifting the blockade. However, it did not offer one immediately following the 2005 withdrawal. 

 

Edited 43 minutes ago by Inliytened1

[Lyubov]

There isn't really too much to discuss here.

Israel will have to sell it's soul and kill lots and lots of people to keep itself safe in the short/medium term.

Palestine will pay with blood, but they and surrounding Muslim countries outnumber the colonial zionist thieves by millions and millions. 

The west is waking up. Gen Z hates Israel. Europe is slowly shifting to recognizing Palestine. Forces that wish to no longer waste US taxpayer money on Israel grow daily.

I wonder what the middle east would look like if the USA /EU greatly withdrew support for Israel. 

 

Edited 43 minutes ago by Lyubov

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well let's let AI answer:

No long-term truce: In the years following the disengagement, Hamas repeatedly proposed long-term truces to Israel in exchange for specific concessions, such as withdrawal from occupied territories or lifting the blockade. However, it did not offer one immediately following the 2005 withdrawal. 

 

That’s what I said, this also ignored my point about the PA which actually went beyond disarming and only got punished for it.