Sitting on benches and under trees

[Sugarcoat]

13 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Re the "I am alive and I'm real"

--> yeah don't know enough as well, it just surprised me. Infinite words you can say for grounding and this particular sentence seemed very metaphysical for me. 

Re Jim Newman

Watched the first minutes will watch more later in the gym. I like the start and how he says "it's new, it's fresh, it's unknown, alive immediate" and how he compares it with the "I know, I am here, separation" 

I see

He gives like a simply conceptual framework of non duality and the self, and he’s like speaking from a place of no self so it’s cool

[Sugarcoat]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Good job. You understand a lot. You cannot help desiring what you desire. Because that is what you are. You can only ever be the expression that you are. I also agree with what you said about the human experience, it is not designed to awaken. Every step of my process literally was experienced as Anti-human.

Ultimately the human experience is to be respected, but the human design is for as you said, pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain its by design and there is wisdom in that design. But don't worry, the human experience is also designed for you to want Truth also by one mechanism, that majority of humans are dishonest and dishonesty ALWAYS has a cost because it is the source of all conflict. It's amazing how humanity forces you through their constant attempts to control you and mold you into their favored design and to hide the truth of just daily interactions that will tire you out to such an extent that a love and desire for Truth emerges.

So don't worry your fellow humans will help cultivate a greater desire for truth when they tire you out with all of their drama and projections.

I agree, i.find you don’t chose your desires! You must kill the part of you that desires it to get rid of it. To create new desires or emotions for that matter is something I haven’t found out how to.

Yea I agree one way that humans get closer to truth is that self deception and lies come with suffering so it’s a matter of time before the person stops having the energy to maintain those ego games .

Edited August 28 by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’d agree. Ill just add , theory and practice kinda intertwine when it comes to how you use your mind.
 

When we shift attention and or focus on something (for example the self, or a body sensation) I  have pondered if the mind is involved in that. One of the ways I noticed this is if I close my eyes and focus on let’s say the sensation in my feet, I almost cannot help it but to simultaneously visualize my feet in relation to me, even if it’s extremely subtle. So directing attention might be a practice- but it’s also kinda theoretical because you may be using your conceptual mind while you do it.

Also this applies to the self image (in my experience) when doing self inquiry it can be kinda self centered instead and enhance the self by focusing on it, one aspect of focus being the mind imagining what it’s focusing on: contributing to creating the very self image

Or it’s just yet another of my weird experiences 😅

 

It's late at night, and I understood none of that.

[UnbornTao]

16 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I agree, i.find you don’t chose your desires! You must kill the part of you that desires it to get rid of it. To create new desires or emotions for that matter is something I haven’t found out how to.

Yea I agree one way that humans get closer to truth is that self deception and lies come with suffering so it’s a matter of time before the person stops having the energy to maintain those ego games .

What?! Nonsense. Desiring is something you do. Feeling like the victim of your own actions is disempowering and untrue. It isn't just a part of you - it is you! Your entire self-identity. Don't turn it into a war between two aspects of yourself. The self will be the winner either way.

Edited August 29 by UnbornTao

[theleelajoker]

11 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’d agree. Ill just add , theory and practice kinda intertwine when it comes to how you use your mind.
 

When we shift attention and or focus on something (for example the self, or a body sensation) I  have pondered if the mind is involved in that. One of the ways I noticed this is if I close my eyes and focus on let’s say the sensation in my feet, I almost cannot help it but to simultaneously visualize my feet in relation to me, even if it’s extremely subtle. So directing attention might be a practice- but it’s also kinda theoretical because you may be using your conceptual mind while you do it.

 

Funny that you mention exactly that stuff with attention focus and feet.

During my first Vipassana, maybe after a week or so I had phases where I stopped doing the imagining, visualization you mention. The technique is moving attention though your complete body. So I started out with "ok attention on shoulder right, arm right, right thumb, now left hand etc etc."

And after a certain period I just moved the attention without imagining or thinking of my feet, legs etc. I clearly remember this flow state, the mind part that identified "shoulder, arm etc " was simply gone, it's turned to just "moving attention" - "here" and "there". It was funny because sitting cross legged the attention shifting is a flow like a figure of 8, so not identifying my "left leg" or "right leg" felt a bit confusing as they kid of overlapped in this position 

Interesting state, there was still mind noticing that 'OK wow I don't think in body parts anymore", but there was no mind identifying the body parts.

Sounds strange? Yes it does it's hard to explain without experiencing it

 

Edited August 29 by theleelajoker

[theleelajoker]

On 27.8.2025 at 4:26 PM, Sugarcoat said:

Yea I agree.

I think as long as we live with this (maybe illusion) of reality and self, it’s useful to act and talk in accordance. We can do all that while simultaneously seek to know the true nature of reality .Meaning we can play the game while simultaneously seeking to end it and know truth of it

@Sugarcoat

This guy is so good at expressing things 

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

@Sugarcoat

This guy is so good at expressing things 

Cool sharing  

[Sugarcoat]

22 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

It's late at night, and I understood none of that.

Nevermind me

[Sugarcoat]

22 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What?! Nonsense. Desiring is something you do. Feeling like the victim of your own actions is disempowering and untrue. It isn't just a part of you - it is you! Your entire self-identity. Don't turn it into a war between two aspects of yourself. The self will be the winner either way.

Lmao here we go again

Honestly maybe we just function differently 

Also if you have a strong sense of self , you might feel strongly identified with your actions , and it feels like you’re doing it all, you’re thinking your thoughts etc. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a process beyond you that influences or sometimes controls it. Like people who severely binge eat: yes they’re the ones grabbing the food but the binging can be driven by desires that overwhelm the self, caused by deep genetic wiring and the reward system

Sometimes taking control can be an action of willpower, and willpower is a limited source for most unless you’re someone like David Goggins. So it can indeed be like a war of different aspects within yourself 

Edited August 29 by Sugarcoat

[Ishanga]

This place is a little crazy, round and round we go, but no one is going anywhere..

The point of the thread is calm/peacefulness when sitting on benches around trees lol... I agree for once with PurpleTree!!

[Sugarcoat]

14 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Funny that you mention exactly that stuff with attention focus and feet.

During my first Vipassana, maybe after a week or so I had phases where I stopped doing the imagining, visualization you mention. The technique is moving attention though your complete body. So I started out with "ok attention on shoulder right, arm right, right thumb, now left hand etc etc."

And after a certain period I just moved the attention without imagining or thinking of my feet, legs etc. I clearly remember this flow state, the mind part that identified "shoulder, arm etc " was simply gone, it's turned to just "moving attention" - "here" and "there". It was funny because sitting cross legged the attention shifting is a flow like a figure of 8, so not identifying my "left leg" or "right leg" felt a bit confusing as they kid of overlapped in this position 

Interesting state, there was still mind noticing that 'OK wow I don't think in body parts anymore", but there was no mind identifying the body parts.

Sounds strange? Yes it does it's hard to explain without experiencing it

 

Funny that you understood 😆

Kudos to you for doing vipassana it sounds very hard!

That’s cool you were able to shut down that mechanism in the mind. Maybe you accessed something deeper in the bodily sensation by removing the mental barrier, like what Leo talked about in his video about “actuality”. The actuality of reality vs concept 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

This place is a little crazy, round and round we go, but no one is going anywhere..

 

That’s how I feel with contemplation lol, it needs to be supported by a process beyond concept to work kinda 

Edited August 29 by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Nevermind me

Try clarifying it some more.

13 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Lmao here we go again

Honestly maybe we just function differently 

Also if you have a strong sense of self , you might feel strongly identified with your actions , and it feels like you’re doing it all, you’re thinking your thoughts etc. But that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a process beyond you that influences or sometimes controls it. Like people who severely binge eat: yes they’re the ones grabbing the food but the binging can be driven by desires that overwhelm the self, caused by deep genetic wiring and the reward system

Sometimes taking control can be an action of willpower, and willpower is a limited source for most unless you’re someone like David Goggins. So it can indeed be like a war of different aspects within yourself 

You insist on being an adept in the religion of Victimhood.

To start with, do you even know what a desire actually is? Naturally, then, you might want to consider that first. What is the activity composed of? What occurs in your experience as 'desire'?

Certainly, there are external influences. Triggers can seem powerful at times, but they don't do it for you. The presence of a trigger doesn't mean you have to react according to its demands. In many cases, you can even stop it from being a trigger at all.

Who or what controls your experience? Can someone else make you angry, for example? Normally, we'd respond in the affirmative - but look closer. Among other things, and beyond the cultural programming, we tend to overlook the lightning-quick process of interpretation and meaning-making that precedes the reaction. This is entirely made by you, even though it might not have been recognized yet. At the risk of oversimplifying the matter, "not taking things personally" is also an option, at least in this and related examples. And what, after all, is an emotion? Becoming more aware of the genesis of your experience eventually shows that you are the author of it. Still, this depth of understanding isn't necessary to see that you generate desire.

You're already in the driver's seat, so it isn't a matter of "taking control," but rather of simply recognizing what's already happening. 

It's like the driver complaining about where the car is taking them. Recognize that you are the driver of your experience, and notice how that's the case.

Edited August 30 by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

 

I see you insist on being an adept in the religion of Victimhood. Do you even know what a desire actually is? Naturally, you might want to consider that first.

Certainly, there are external influences. Triggers can seem powerful at times, but they don't do it for you. The presence of a trigger doesn't mean you have to react according to its demands. In many cases, you can even stop it from being a trigger at all.

Who or what controls your experience? Can someone else make you angry, for example? Normally, we'd respond in the affirmative - but look closer. Among other things, and beyond the cultural programming, we tend to overlook the lightning-quick process of interpretation and meaning-making that precedes the reaction. This is entirely made by you, even though it is not cognized as of yet. And what, after all, is an emotion? Becoming more aware of this - of the very genesis of your experience - is necessary if you're to see how you are, in fact, the author of it.

You're already in the driver's seat. It isn't a matter of "taking control" but recognizing what's already happening. 

It's like the driver complaining about where the car is taking him/her.

My thought is that most people operate “automatically” a lot of the time. So the selfs doing could be said is the “allowing it to happen” (it’s not really a “doing”) In any moment there is opportunity to stop. But even stopping could be automatic, in the way that let’s say a person conditioned with religion thinks sinning is bad so they avoid it. Humans are animals at the end of the day.

You could call it all the self, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t arise automatically. And it certainly doesn’t mean change is not possible. The idea “I do this” didn’t it arise automatically 🤔

Maybe I’m wrong tho. I’m not fully firm in this. It maybe also depends on how you define the self.

I seem to have gone in an extreme direction of the happening being beyond the self . I can see some flaws in it. But for now I don’t know how to elaborate, so I’ll just let it be

Edited August 30 by Sugarcoat

[Natasha Tori Maru]

26 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

It's like the driver complaining about where the car is taking him/her.

I like this! 

There is a pervasive dialogue that thoughts 'befall us' - oh! Woe is me, the thoughts come for me and befall me! 

And while I do understand neural pathways that are activated can reinforce these thoughts to make them feel 'default' - they are indeed just bad habits. The thoughts are repeated and habitual to the extent they are the least effortful way of existing. These thoughts are what I deem, in myself, reflex thoughts.

Changing the patterns of thought requires energy, conscious energy. And deliberately placing awareness on them is the only way to begin the process of unravelling. Changing the reflexive thought pattern to another type, through repetition.

Changing bad-habit thoughts is just the same as changing a bad habit in reality: keep putting energy into changing the behaviour 'make the bed when I am finished with sleep' until it becomes the new default. Once it is ingrained in the nervous system, it just happens with no effort. For a while, forcing ourselves to make the bed requires huge mindfulness and effort: until it becomes a reflex of the neural pathways. Repeat. Practice makes perfect.

Once it is the new reflex, it just happens. The bed gets made. The body just does it. You are in the moment and present, and you trust the bed will get made, at the time it should be made, just as it should. You don't even remember making the bed, it is now part of the brains autopilot. Same with thoughts. External reality mirrors internal. 

Anyway... Just elaborating on what has been my process for anyone who stumbles with this. 

Practice. Meditate to become aware of the thoughts as first step. Put effort to change your thoughts and your brain will rewire to follow. 

If individuals have issue with this, and they have no actual physiological inhibitors (IE a real chemical issue in the brain they have a proper medical insight into, or physical difference) I implore you to meditate and become aware of the nature of your thoughts. 

They never come out of no where. We (so to speak hehe) do them.

 

Edited August 29 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sugarcoat]

36 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Try clarifying it some more.

Ok since you say so…

I noticed that if I close my eyes, and focus my attention on the physical sensation of a certain body part: it’s hard to do that without simultaneously visualizing the body parts position (even if it’s so subtle I barely notice the thought)

It seems when we direct attention on something: the mind might also think about it 

I read that one aspect of self inquiry is focusing your attention on the self. If the mind also imagines what it focuses on, it means the mind will imagine the self while it’s focused on. And that will create a self image, contribute to the self rather than dissolving it like self inquiry is supposed to do . 
 

But directing attention is seen as a kind of spiritual practice. But if the mind is involved it also becomes kinda conceptual. (But something like labelling might still be considered purely practice)

This is based on my own experiences, I could explain more but I think it’s enough. Hehe

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29 by Sugarcoat

[Natasha Tori Maru]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I noticed that if I close my eyes, and focus my attention on the physical sensation of a certain body part: it’s hard to do that without simultaneously visualizing the body parts position (even if it’s so subtle I barely notice the thought)

There is awareness of 'light' 

Then a perception/interpretation/concept thought 'the light is on' 

In my experience - these 2 can be seperated. 

Wittled down to just 'awareness of light'

You could apply this to the body part also

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Natasha Tori Maru said:

There is awareness of 'light' 

Then a perception/interpretation/concept thought 'the light is on' 

In my experience - these 2 can be seperated. 

Wittled down to just 'awareness of light'

You could apply this to the body part also

I don’t notice any auditorial thoughts when I perceive objects. Like if I look at my lamp I don’t think the word “lamp” unless I’m thinking about it in particular for some reason like “I need a new lamp”

[Davino]

On 26/8/2025 at 5:55 PM, PurpleTree said:

Sitting on benches and under trees are two of my favourite things to do.

Sitting on benches in busy nice cities.

Sitting under beautiful trees.

I love it too

A good benche with nice atmosphere is like a treasure.

[Aaron p]

Is the op in relation to meditation benches cuz I just ordered one. Sitting cross legged nearly always causes the god forsaken leg numbness. But my joints are naturally loose so that numbness quickly transpires into pain. Gona try the bench and sit on my knees with my feet coming under and behind. People say it's good solution. It's also not wood, it's a modern, metal, adjustable height one. Seems interesting. I'll submit a report