Why I'm Leaving America (for good)

[MarkKol]

Funny you mention that I'm also going to East Asia at the beginning of November this year, and I've had some epiphanies as well, mostly how cheap it is and how some parts are so much technologically advanced in ways where the US is so stagnant. China's operating maglev train can go 300-420km* an hour and they already unveiled their working prototype maglev CRRC 600 that goes 600km/h. The maglev train ticket costs like $7. Having grown up in Europe, I massively prefer public transport + walking over lone car driving; the US doesn't even have the railway or sidewalks for these things to be possible. Even if you only want to visit Los Angeles, you need a car, which is sad. In most parts of Asia, everything is really cheap, like you said. In Vietnam, a week in a 4-5 star apartment can run you a little over $100-150.

I am going to Hanoi, Vietnam, on November 9th, and additionally Tokyo/Osaka + Seoul, South Korea, maybe Beijing for a day or two. Nothing is set in stone yet, besides Vietnam.

I'm curious about your experience and elaboration on the dating and relationships in Asia vs America. Socially, I found America way too grindy and money-driven. The friendship part was mostly a positive experience in the US, which is where our views slightly diverge. The whory/ladyboy media in Thailand has painted a bleak picture of the dating/friendship part for all of East Asia for me. I am open to changing how I feel about it. I'm curious how you communicated with people there.

I still think it's massively subjective. Even though I love cities like Paris, I would never live there, or anywhere in Asia for that matter, I prefer the US even over the UK, which is closer to my European roots and way closer physically. I am culturally more familiar with America than even my own country. Which is the single reason why it wins for me.

If you want it real, I think non-subjectively, Australia and Scandinavia are likely the best places to live. Subjectively, I like the reckless dating and friendship side of America; Australia is too far from anything, and Scandinavia is far too lonely and isolating. Subjectively.

Edited Sunday at 05:43 PM by MarkKol

[MarkKol]

To be honest, I think the majority of things you call Western are all a result of capitalism, liberalism, and individualism, which all come in tandem. It's all bound to happen, even in Asia, too, where you don't have those things; you have other problems to worry about. 

[WonderSeeker]

2 hours ago, MarkKol said:

Funny you mention that I'm also going to East Asia at the beginning of November this year, and I've had some epiphanies as well, mostly how cheap it is and how some parts are so much technologically advanced in ways where the US is so stagnant. China's operating maglev train can go 300-420km* an hour and they already unveiled their working prototype maglev CRRC 600 that goes 600km/h. The maglev train ticket costs like $7. Having grown up in Europe, I massively prefer public transport + walking over lone car driving; the US doesn't even have the railway or sidewalks for these things to be possible. Even if you only want to visit Los Angeles, you need a car, which is sad. In most parts of Asia, everything is really cheap, like you said. In Vietnam, a week in a 4-5 star apartment can run you a little over $100-150.

I am going to Hanoi, Vietnam, on November 9th, and additionally Tokyo/Osaka + Seoul, South Korea, maybe Beijing for a day or two. Nothing is set in stone yet, besides Vietnam.

I'm curious about your experience and elaboration on the dating and relationships in Asia vs America. Socially, I found America way too grindy and money-driven. The friendship part was mostly a positive experience in the US, which is where our views slightly diverge. The whory/ladyboy media in Thailand has painted a bleak picture of the dating/friendship part for all of East Asia for me. I am open to changing how I feel about it. I'm curious how you communicated with people there.

I still think it's massively subjective. Even though I love cities like Paris, I would never live there, or anywhere in Asia for that matter, I prefer the US even over the UK, which is closer to my European roots and way closer physically. I am culturally more familiar with America than even my own country. Which is the single reason why it wins for me.

If you want it real, I think non-subjectively, Australia and Scandinavia are likely the best places to live. Subjectively, I like the reckless dating and friendship side of America; Australia is too far from anything, and Scandinavia is far too lonely and isolating. Subjectively.

Yeah I think the 'reckless' dating/friendship of America is what turns me off the most. It's just fake and massively unattractive. To participate in it is to lie to yourself or to have think skin (if you have the latter, good for you then). Reason I liked east Asia wasn't just because it was cheaper like some people talked about. I made better connections and was able to express myself in new ways that I couldn't believe.

This is actually interesting AF because I see everyone else focusing on the negative, yet it doesn't really get to me because when I think about moving to Korea and bumping around to other countries surrounding it I'm only focused on all of the adventures I'm going to go on, the people I'm gonna meet, and the radical transformations I'm gonna go through. It's the intention you bring in that counts: the intention to create and experience.

An hey if I'm wrong, then ok big deal. I'm only 27. Will move onto something else. Most people in here haven't even been to east Asia, they're just reading ChatGPT and farting out ungrounded opinions. I've actually been (and it's lit).

When I'm older though I wouldn't mind Scandinavia or eastern Canada (away from the cities). We'll see.

Enjoy Hanoi and the others as you go! Cheers.

[WonderSeeker]

12 hours ago, AION said:

You never know how good you have it until you experienced the lack there of.  If you are hell bent on it you should fuck around and find out. Same with Japan. It looks all cute and funny until you get caught up in their soul crushing system ending up with a deadpan stare looking into the abyss. I couldn’t live somewhere else than the west because regardless of everything wrong there is still some human decency like various human and workers rights, free time, privacy, freedom of speech, security, equality etc. Even in the top notch countries like Japan and Korea, you get treated different as an outsider. There is more to it than getting a cute haircut and a fancy meal. Living there is another experience. 

What version of "the West" are you referring to?

In America all of those things you described such as 'workers rights' and 'free speech' have been eroding for years, now at an accelerated pace.

Let's do some epistemology. How do you know what you're saying?

1) The internet.
2) Talking to real people with real experience.
3) Experiencing the thing yourself.

Because the latter two I have experience in. I've passed through Korea and stayed in Mongolia for 6 weeks. I found so much joy in the adventures and integrating aspects of the culture (language, speech, dating, growth, etc). I've spoken to people who've lived in Japan, Korea, and Mongolia (and said they loved it). I know others who travel like this. They create whole new lives overseas and prefer it (like I did).

In my life I've found you don't know until you try. And if you haven't tried, talk to people. And if you aren't happy where you're at, might as well try something new.

If you are, then keep doing what you're doing sir *tips cap*

[Puer Aeternus]

Definitely give LATAM a shot if Asia doesn't work out for you and I saw you mention it too! 

WAY easier to establish permanent residency. Paraguay and Mexico are probably the easiest places on earth to get it, but the other ones aren't that much harder. 

There are definitely some chill, more stable, and progressive pockets. Chile, Costa Rica (though it's the priciest), and my top choice Uruguay. 

They also have something called Mercosur, which is similar to EU freedom of movement. Once you have PR it's much easier to move around, work in, and even immigrate to other members states if you want. Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, Bolivia, and Argentina are full members so I'm pretty sure this applies to them. There double the number in associate states, but they don't have full members rights so it'd be more case by case for them.

The biggest issue is you'd probably want outside income coming in from an online business to live there, local salaries aren't what you could get in say a Korea/China.

Just a bit of an extra info dump cause why not 

Edited Sunday at 09:11 PM by Puer Aeternus

[PurpleTree]

On 2025-08-09 at 10:16 PM, Schizophonia said:

South Korea is basically one of the worst country on earth according to your own criteria.

Super capitalist, super superficial culture (world capital of cosmetic surgery), very little "spirituality" compared to other Asian countries or even Europe, super racist, horrible politics with almost the majority of ex-presidents who ended up in prison and a recent attempt to install martial law, demographics in free fall so much that people work and are individualistic anyway, non-existent gastronomy (kimchi/bibimpap/soupwithnoodlesrandomvegetablesandgochujangpaste loop).

Exactly. 
 

Maybe if you’re not in the « rat race » in Korea it’s better.

But you haven’t even been to S. Korea and want to live there? That’s wild. Anyhow good luck

[WonderSeeker]

4 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Definitely give LATAM a shot if Asia doesn't work out for you and I saw you mention it too! 

WAY easier to establish permanent residency. Paraguay and Mexico are probably the easiest places on earth to get it, but the other ones aren't that much harder. 

There are definitely some chill, more stable, and progressive pockets. Chile, Costa Rica (though it's the priciest), and my top choice Uruguay. 

They also have something called Mercosur, which is similar to EU freedom of movement. Once you have PR it's much easier to move around, work in, and even immigrate to other members states if you want. Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, Bolivia, and Argentina are full members so I'm pretty sure this applies to them. There double the number in associate states, but they don't have full members rights so it'd be more case by case for them.

The biggest issue is you'd probably want outside income coming in from an online business to live there, local salaries aren't what you could get in say a Korea/China.

Just a bit of an extra info dump cause why not 

That's sounds like a great opportunity actually.

Thanks for sharing dude

[BlessedLion]

Hey man,

 

I just wanted to say I really resonate with your post and everything you are saying here. I grew up in the US, Southern California and Texas. SoCal was dope but Texas was awful. Anyway, I went to college there and the second I graduated i got a job that let me travel remote (before it was mainstream, like 2017) This let me go to Colombia, Mexico, Bali, Brazil, Europe and I quickly learned that I had been a square peg trying to fit myself into a round hole my whole life. I always felt America was so tense, cold, and hyper competitve, and also just so indiviualistic with little care on community, connection or depth.

I have been pursuing self actualization and consciousness for around a decade now and I spent about 8 years outside the US. For whatever reason this summer i had the "Call" to come back to America and see how it is. So i got an apartment in a city and have been living here for like 8 weeks now. 

Man.... It's tough to live here. I'm not going to say it's all bad, there are positives, and this is a nuanced thing, but for the cost of living for the value is totally not worth it. I've also found it really tough to meet people, everyone is just kind of on their own pace and even in yoga events, ecstatic dance, etc people just come- do the event- and leave. The ability to connect here is lost, it feels like people have lost that skill, the individualism of American culture has backfired massively. Without drugs, or alcohol most people just can't dive deep or be themselves.

 

I went out to some clubs and bars to try and socialize or have fun, it was so soul draining. So much performance and everyone is high and drunk as fuck. I've partied in other countries, yet in other countries it feels more like a celebration of life (Like in Brazil) but in the US it's like a numbing/escape. Luckily I have only 1 month left here and i can't wait to leave. Im either going to move to Mexico or Brazil, likely Brazil it has more than everything I'd ever want. 

This was such a clarifying trip to me. I don't belong here, it's unconsious, and not very warm, it's tense, everyone is obsessed with politics. The dating scene is awful, the women here are mostly out of touch with their femininity for the large part- i couldn't hook up with them if i wanted to, so i've just been going into celibacy and semen retention practices here, which has been super potent. Idk, I just look around the city and get this huge "childish" vibe. Like everyone is living their little clay life, eating their avocado toast, walking their dogs, and living for the weekend, no one seems to be pursuing mastery of any sort and it's just coffee to scrolling to booze to porn to video games. My roomate is a good example of this, dude sits on his phone for 8-9 hours a day scrolling tik tok, then goes out to drink and fuck a random chick, his poor dog barely gets taken care of and i have to help it because i don't want it to suffer. 

 

One of the most challenging things about self actualizing and development is that it gets lonely. You no longer care about what the masses care about, you see it as a waste of time, energy, and an opening to karma you don't want. I simply can't connect on these values and interests and i don't drink or do drugs so that cuts out a good portion of bonding activities. 

 

Anyway, I think choosing to leave is a good call and you won't drown in debt either. There are much better places to live than America where you can find strong community and aligned vibes. 

 

This is just my take, so i hope people don't get butthurt and start flinging shit at me because my perspective makes them insecure about their own decisions.

[Dinesh Karki]

2 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Hey man,

 

I just wanted to say I really resonate with your post and everything you are saying here. I grew up in the US, Southern California and Texas. SoCal was dope but Texas was awful. Anyway, I went to college there and the second I graduated i got a job that let me travel remote (before it was mainstream, like 2017) This let me go to Colombia, Mexico, Bali, Brazil, Europe and I quickly learned that I had been a square peg trying to fit myself into a round hole my whole life. I always felt America was so tense, cold, and hyper competitve, and also just so indiviualistic with little care on community, connection or depth.

I have been pursuing self actualization and consciousness for around a decade now and I spent about 8 years outside the US. For whatever reason this summer i had the "Call" to come back to America and see how it is. So i got an apartment in a city and have been living here for like 8 weeks now. 

Man.... It's tough to live here. I'm not going to say it's all bad, there are positives, and this is a nuanced thing, but for the cost of living for the value is totally not worth it. I've also found it really tough to meet people, everyone is just kind of on their own pace and even in yoga events, ecstatic dance, etc people just come- do the event- and leave. The ability to connect here is lost, it feels like people have lost that skill, the individualism of American culture has backfired massively. Without drugs, or alcohol most people just can't dive deep or be themselves.

 

I went out to some clubs and bars to try and socialize or have fun, it was so soul draining. So much performance and everyone is high and drunk as fuck. I've partied in other countries, yet in other countries it feels more like a celebration of life (Like in Brazil) but in the US it's like a numbing/escape. Luckily I have only 1 month left here and i can't wait to leave. Im either going to move to Mexico or Brazil, likely Brazil it has more than everything I'd ever want. 

This was such a clarifying trip to me. I don't belong here, it's unconsious, and not very warm, it's tense, everyone is obsessed with politics. The dating scene is awful, the women here are mostly out of touch with their femininity for the large part- i couldn't hook up with them if i wanted to, so i've just been going into celibacy and semen retention practices here, which has been super potent. Idk, I just look around the city and get this huge "childish" vibe. Like everyone is living their little clay life, eating their avocado toast, walking their dogs, and living for the weekend, no one seems to be pursuing mastery of any sort and it's just coffee to scrolling to booze to porn to video games. My roomate is a good example of this, dude sits on his phone for 8-9 hours a day scrolling tik tok, then goes out to drink and fuck a random chick, his poor dog barely gets taken care of and i have to help it because i don't want it to suffer. 

 

One of the most challenging things about self actualizing and development is that it gets lonely. You no longer care about what the masses care about, you see it as a waste of time, energy, and an opening to karma you don't want. I simply can't connect on these values and interests and i don't drink or do drugs so that cuts out a good portion of bonding activities. 

 

Anyway, I think choosing to leave is a good call and you won't drown in debt either. There are much better places to live than America where you can find strong community and aligned vibes. 

 

This is just my take, so i hope people don't get butthurt and start flinging shit at me because my perspective makes them insecure about their own decisions.

Good to hear.

[Kid A]

@BlessedLion Really interesting reading. I rated Norway 10/10 in the "How would you rate the place you were born or live"-thread. I have realized that I made a mistake because my experience of social life in Norway is very similar to yours in America. 

[AION]

11 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

What version of "the West" are you referring to?

In America all of those things you described such as 'workers rights' and 'free speech' have been eroding for years, now at an accelerated pace.

Let's do some epistemology. How do you know what you're saying?

1) The internet.
2) Talking to real people with real experience.
3) Experiencing the thing yourself.

Because the latter two I have experience in. I've passed through Korea and stayed in Mongolia for 6 weeks. I found so much joy in the adventures and integrating aspects of the culture (language, speech, dating, growth, etc). I've spoken to people who've lived in Japan, Korea, and Mongolia (and said they loved it). I know others who travel like this. They create whole new lives overseas and prefer it (like I did).

In my life I've found you don't know until you try. And if you haven't tried, talk to people. And if you aren't happy where you're at, might as well try something new.

If you are, then keep doing what you're doing sir *tips cap*

I lived in Asia. And it is very different than traveling it aka eating a cute meal and talking to people. That is what I’m saying. But perhaps you might like you so you can try. 

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Kid A said:

@BlessedLion Really interesting reading. I rated Norway 10/10 in the "How would you rate the place you were born or live"-thread. I have realized that I made a mistake because my experience of social life in Norway is very similar to yours in America. 

So maybe -2 points for social life?

I agree.

[Kid A]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So maybe -2 points for social life?

I agree.

Yeah, 8/10 is probably more accurate. 

[samijiben]

Any of you fuckers in Nepal by the way? Hit me up!

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Kid A said:

Yeah, 8/10 is probably more accurate. 

I would say the same for my country. 

The people are very lovely but often more on the cautious side, which can be bland at times.

For example Italy is more social etc. in that way.

But i’ve met Norwegians too and they were very lovely.

[Dinesh Karki]

 

3 hours ago, samijiben said:

Any of you fuckers in Nepal by the way? Hit me up!

[PurpleTree]

3 hours ago, samijiben said:

Any of you fuckers in Nepal by the way? Hit me up!

Nepal is on my list for sure.

[Schizophonia]

France is the country with the best gastronomy in the world, with the greatest variety of landscapes, with the most monuments, with the highest political culture in the world (the majority of people become politicized from high school, there are no taboos on debate, there are tones of candidates in the various elections from Stalin to Adolf Hitler), no culture of hypocrisy in social relations like in the United States, social security, and a generally green population.

Here I'm promoting my country, aka the best country in the world 😎, but you can be happy in Europe in general.

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

France is the country with the best gastronomy in the world, with the greatest variety of landscapes, with the most monuments, with the highest political culture in the world (the majority of people become politicized from high school, there are no taboos on debate, there are tones of candidates in the various elections from Stalin to Adolf Hitler), no culture of hypocrisy in social relations like in the United States, social security, and a generally green population.

Here I'm promoting my country, aka the best country in the world 😎, but you can be happy in Europe in general.

Are you talking about the Islamic Republic of Francistan?

 

 

 

 

hihi jk

i do like France(istan)

[meta_male]

@PurpleTree Still one of the most scenic Middle Eastern countries in the West. Right after Switzerland.