Anti human spirituality

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Left layers and layers of fear.

Perhaps you don’t realize the extent of the threat implanted in your brain’s amygdala. Your whole being is compressed by a vibration of anxious self-protection that closes you off. It’s innate ,not an illusion.

Fear of what? Losing ones self? Maybe if one actually lost it they might not be so scared anymore.  Yeah.  It's fucking scary.  Before ego death.  But once you have ego death it's not so bad. Living i mean. Because you know it's gonna be OK regardless.  Losing the self isn't really that scary.  We have to build it up like that otherwise we couldn't endure. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall This is an example of survival - what is left when you don't have to worry about survival?

I already told you. Your energy system operates in a state of survival in several layers and at different levels. It is a complex energetic structure that takes on different spectra and is the basis of your functioning as a human, what makes humanity cohesive, act, evolve, reproduce, survive, and advance.

This energy system is not an illusion; it is real. The story of the ocean is exactly the same as walking down the street in Madrid; only the vibration configuration changes. If you want to open it, you must understand it, not deny it.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I already told you. Your energy system operates in a state of survival in several layers and at different levels. It is a complex energetic structure that takes on different spectra and is the basis of your functioning as a human, what makes humanity cohesive, act, evolve, reproduce, survive, and advance.

This energy system is not an illusion; it is real. The story of the ocean is exactly the same as walking down the street in Madrid; only the vibration configuration changes. If you want to open it, you must understand it, not deny it.

I am not being arrogant or condescending here - you still have not addressed the question.

Are you saying that if survival is removed - the energy system is still there?

How can the energy system be there if there is nothing to create it? In this thought experiment - recall there is no survival to worry about.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Fear of what? Losing ones self? Maybe if one actually lost it they might not be so scared anymore.  Yeah.  It's fucking scary.  Before ego death.  But once you have ego death it's not so bad. Living i mean. Because you know it's gonna be OK regardless.  Losing the self isn't really that scary.  We have to build it up like that otherwise we couldn't endure. 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe that's just an idea to avoiding facing directly the fear. 

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I am not being arrogant or condescending here - you still have not addressed the question.

Are you saying that if survival is removed - the energy system is still there?

How can the energy system be there if there is nothing to create it? In this thought experiment - recall there is no survival to worry about.

 The survival never is removed, it It's a standard mechanism, like the brakes on a car, an essential part of the design. What you can do is understand it deeply, feel it completely, look it in the face, and at certain moments, decompress its vibration, open it up. Then the energy capsule that limits you opens. When it opens, you perceive yourself as the flow of reality, and this makes it easier for you to face fear each time.

But it never disappears. It's a reality of your structure that you must accept, value, and integrate. It's not an illusion. To define it as an illusion is to deny it, and by denying it, it doesn't disappear; it grows stronger.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe that's just an idea to avoiding facing directly the fear. 

 

It's not.  It's liberation. It's helped me many a time to get past panic mode.  When you feel like you're about to die or pass out. You know there is just Infinite Consciousness on the other side.  It's almost beckoning to you.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Breakingthewall I'm saying - pretend it is removed. A thought experiment. This is very closed off thinking 'it can never be removed' 

It is a theoratical thought experiment - what is left?

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's not.  It's liberation. It's helped me many a time to get past panic mode.  When you feel like you're about to die or pass out. You know there is just Infinite Consciousness on the other side.  It's almost beckoning to you.  

That legit. But If you are truly certain that you are unlimited, you don't need to build those frames about God creating dreams, you simply perceive your limitlessness. But even in that case, fear is a real vibration and it's essential to feel it, be one with it without avoidance, feel all the fear of rejection that you felt in your life, see how it closes you in a capsule, then feel the atavic fear to destruction, the real hardware, and pass through it 

25 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall I'm saying - pretend it is removed. A thought experiment. This is very closed off thinking 'it can never be removed' 

It is a theoratical thought experiment - what is left?

Even can't eliminate it, you can open it up, and if you open it up, what remains is openness, unlimited flow. That's what spirituality is all about; it's what we're supposed to do. What I'm saying is that considering the psychological structure as an illusion doesn't create this openness; it creates closure disguised as liberation. 

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Even can't eliminate it, you can open it up, and if you open it up, what remains is openness, unlimited flow. That's what spirituality is all about; it's what we're supposed to do. What I'm saying is that considering the psychological structure as an illusion doesn't create this openness; it creates closure disguised as liberation. 

If you won't contemplate how will you get any breakthroughs of understanding?

This is the opposite of the openness you speak about... cognitive dissonance exemplified

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

If you won't contemplate how will you get any breakthroughs of understanding?

This is the opposite of the openness you speak about... cognitive dissonance exemplified

What do you mean? All that I said is about contemplation, then after contemplating very deep I see that the self is not illusory, and I explain it very clear, anyone can understand it. Why it's cognitive dissonance? Saying that I'm creating false ideas due cognitive dissonance is condescendence. Maybe to protect your frame? 

Instead to say that you could explain why it's illusory, and why what I said is a mistake 

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Breakingthewall Because you won't contemplate 'what are you, what is the 'complex'? if there us no survival.

I don't think you know what condescending is either.. I digress

[Inliytened1]

34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That legit. But If you are truly certain that you are unlimited, you don't need to build those frames about God creating dreams,

Of course I don't need to. But when you discover it's not material what else is there.  Look. Your reality is yours.  From my view you're just a character in my dream.  From your view maybe I'm the same. I don't have some whole existence outside of you.  If you really start thinking about it, it should make you laugh.   So you're out there. With your everyday struggles.  But you'll die some day..not sure maybe "before or after me".  So will that be something that happens or will that be something I dream happens? And what if I die before you? What happens to my point of view? Is there only yours or is there really no points of view at all, 

Edited August 13 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall Because you won't contemplate 'what are you, what is the 'complex'? if there us no survival.

I don't think you know what condescending is either.. I digress

Okay, so instead of refuting my claims, you choose to say I have cognitive dissonance and that you won't refute them because I won't consider it. Well, fine. That's your approach, and I respect it.

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

From my view you're just a character in my dream

It's like saying that from mine, you are a Putin spy who wants to put polonium in my coffee. I mean, it's just an idea that you are making up. And it's essential to maintain the frame that you are defending, that you are creating the reality as a dream from a god mode

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

So will that be something that happens or will that be something I dream happens? And what if I die before you? What happens to my point of view? Is there only yours or is there really no points of view at all,

You could truly understand what a perspective is, how it operates, how reality takes the form you are now, how it flows and changes without pause in the dynamic flux that you are, and you could clearly intuit how that flux will restructure itself after the death or disintegration of this cycle. You could see it directly if you stopped clinging to closed mental frames

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

.

You could truly understand what a perspective is, how it operates, how reality takes the form you are now, how it flows and changes without pause in the dynamic flux that you are, and you could clearly intuit how that flux will restructure itself after the death or disintegration of this cycle. You could see it directly if you stopped clinging to closed mental frames

And you could see it if you realized it was made of nothing.  It's purely imaginary.  Our existence IS imaginary.   Now - whether to you that is heartbreaking or not - i get it. But really if you think about it the alternative must still also be finite.  If you had a physical objective reality it too must also end

 

Edited August 13 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And you could see it if you realized it was made of nothing.  It's purely imaginary.  Our existence IS imaginary.   Now - whether to you that is heartbreaking or not - i get it. But really if you think about it the alternative must still also be finite.  If you had a physical objective reality it too must also end

 

 

I don't know how to make you see that "nothing" or "imaginary" are relative concepts that you use to encapsulate reality. It means you're operating from a place of separation from which you define. If you're one with reality, you can't define it; it is what it is, what you are, and you're in flux. "Nothing" and "imaginary" are ideas that appear in the flow; they can't contain it. This is extremely obvious, and if you don't see it, you're always divided.

[Inliytened1]

27 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall Because you won't contemplate 'what are you, what is the 'complex'? if there us no survival.

I don't think you know what condescending is either.. I digress

Props to @Breakingthewall for battling.  He truly is an inspiration to so many on here and he is a true leader.

@Breakingthewall dont change a thing you're an inspiration to everyone here.  When we meet up i will make sure to really give you a toss around. 

Edited August 13 by Inliytened1

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Even can't eliminate it, you can open it up, and if you open it up, what remains is openness, unlimited flow. That's what spirituality is all about; it's what we're supposed to do. What I'm saying is that considering the psychological structure as an illusion doesn't create this openness; it creates closure disguised as liberation. 

In ACIM, we say there are just 2 things - calls for love and expressions of love. Calls for love means duality and dissonance and expressions of love are oneness and harmony. How to go from former to latter? Recognise that nothing real can be hurt and everyone is the same and wants the same. It's a transmutation. You forgive people's attempts at a power grab. They are merely calling for love. You yourself see them as they are, an expression of love just like yourself.

Edited August 13 by gettoefl

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

I don't know how to make you see that "nothing" or "imaginary" are relative concepts that you use to encapsulate m

Let's go 😀

So a physical world is not a relative concept?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's go 😀

So a physical world is not a relative concept?

Yes, same than imaginary world..

 

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Props to @Breakingthewall for battling.  He truly is an inspiration to so many on here and he is a true leader.

😅Just obsessive 

[Human Mint]

On 8/11/2025 at 1:33 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

They are 2 separate realizations.

Ok. Cos' I held them as different too, but now I start to think that No-Self realization is the same as realizing the true, infinte Self, which is God. But I think when people talk about the 'self' being illusion they commonly refer to a different thing

[Human Mint]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, well, that's psychotic narcissism, it's fine for anyone to get over it, but I'm not talking about that, but about the real psychological structure, the real neural pathways that make you pick up an axe and start a fight to the death when you see your children being raped.

I think the last bit is a generalization and an assumption. There is no reason why would everyone act the same way. But what really interests me is the fact that, let's suppose you're being raped, deep down you know is wrong. But if you're too weak you might just believe that you deserve to be raped, although deep down you know is wrong. Why? When rape stops being rape and becomes sex? Also a psychological structure? Are you saying that consensus is a psychological structure?