Anti human spirituality

[Schizophonia]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Thanks,. that so kind advice from both. At first I took it like condescendence and mocking, crazy right? It's clear that both of you are true and noble.

I'd say it's both; we post both out of kindness and to crush you, to feel superior by ridiculing your point of view.
The two energies are more or less overlapping, and you can polarize (perceive) one or the other via the same messages depending on your mood, on the current structure of your ego.

 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I'd say it's both; we post both out of kindness and to crush you, to feel superior by ridiculing your point of view.
The two energies are more or less overlapping, and you can polarize (perceive) one or the other via the same messages depending on your mood, on the current structure of your ego.

 

I perceive the second, of course. But it's stupid to get triggered by that in a forum. To your other questions, I answered you in private

Anyway, I deserve some kind of advice, it's important to talk with equanimity in the sense that not attacking other philosophy. But as I tried a lot that idea of the meditation where you are the screen and that and I realized that it's impossible, it's a mistake, I talked like aggressive. That's not the way if you want to communicate . Aggressiveness is a mistake in many senses, a manifestation of insecurity in many cases

Edited August 18 by Breakingthewall

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure , argues happens , it's normal. It's like pathetic get triggered but it's also normal. Every tense situation is an opportunity to see yourself and improve. See yourself is the key. 

Next second, you get out the forum, then in that moment, there is no forum.

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, James123 said:

Next second, you get out the forum, then in that moment, there is no forum.

Well, when there is a forum, there is a forum. Same with the self. Imo the category "illusion" is a closure. 

According to what I've read in your posts, it seems that in meditation you achieve a state of openness, right? Pure being, the total plenitude of what is, what in Advaita Vedanta is called sat chit ananda. Sat, what is. Chit, which stands out in itself. Ananda, full, total, without lack.

But this is the character of the reality, then it's the flow of the reality, it's form. The form is not illusory, it's an inevitable manifestation of the absence of limitations. What you could say it's illusory is the meaning that we give to the flow, but it's not illusory, it's just a vibration of the flow , a form. It's a closed perspective, can be more open: flow, and more open: substance, pure being. And more open: just openess. No one is false. Are facets of the reality 

Edited August 18 by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure , argues happens , it's normal. It's like pathetic get triggered but it's also normal. Every tense situation is an opportunity to see yourself and improve. See yourself is the key. 

And then laugh about it  

As hard as it is, as often as I forget it, as often as I tell others not doing myself: When I do it, it's great! I mean holy shit the cosmic sense of humor is incredible and laughing is amazing ingredient of freedom!

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

According to what I've read in your posts, it seems that in meditation you achieve a state of openness, right? Pure being, the total plenitude of what is, what in Advaita Vedanta is called sat chit ananda. Sat, what is. Chit, which stands out in itself. Ananda, full, total, without lack.

Not "me". We are it.

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But this is the character of the reality, then it's the flow of the reality, it's form. The form is not illusory, it's an inevitable manifestation of the absence of limitations. What you could say it's illusory is the meaning that we give to the flow, but it's not illusory, it's just a vibration of the flow , a form. It's a closed perspective, can be more open: flow, and more open: substance, pure being. And more open: just openess. No one is false. Are facets of the reality 

Actually not a character, because it is not based on beliefs or experience or knowledge or past/future.

But what We are is Being itself, which is Now. The body appears in the Being and functions as an instrument, but it is not separate. The body, like every form, is simply within the Now. Just connecting trough the body, and the body is one with the moment. Not separate.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, James123 said:

Actually not a character, because it is not based on beliefs or experience or knowledge or past/future.

But what We are is Being itself, which is Now. The body appears in the Being and functions as an instrument, but it is not separate. The body, like every form, is simply within the Now. Just connecting trough the body, and the body is one with the moment. Not separate.

Yes I understand that. You meditate, and the sensation of the body disappears. There is no form, there is being. And being manifests as brilliant in the sense that it stands out, and full because it lacks nothing. This is the quality of what is.

But there is one more step. Sat chit Ananda is still limited in one dimension: it is. It's positive, do you understand? There is another step, the total step. Absolute openness, limitlessness, the cause of being. It is not thinkable or definable. It is an absolute abyss that you look into and dissolve into. It is a total action, and in doing it, you realize from form that your ultimate nature is openness, limitlessness. Beyond being. 

Take the possibility like possible 

[James123]

24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

But there is one more step. Sat chit Ananda is still limited in one dimension: it is. It's positive, do you understand? There is another step, the total step. Absolute openness, limitlessness, the cause of being. It is not thinkable or definable. It is an absolute abyss that you look into and dissolve into. It is a total action, and in doing it, you realize from form that your ultimate nature is openness, limitlessness. Beyond being. 

Take the possibility like possible 

İt is neither positive nor negative. İt is what negativity and positivity arises and falls. Moreover, it is not thinkable or definable or deniable. Because, it is where anything and everything arises and falls. 

Being is the ground of the groundless. The Being is the substratum of all. It is the ground upon which all appears. Yet, it is itself without ground, for it depends on nothing. It shines by its own light.

So, Being is both:

the ground, because all experiences, body, mind, world arise in it;

the groundless, because it has no cause, no foundation, no outside.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes I understand that. You meditate, and the sensation of the body disappears. There is no form, there is being. And being manifests as brilliant in the sense that it stands out, and full because it lacks nothing. This is the quality of what is.

But there is one more step. Sat chit Ananda is still limited in one dimension: it is. It's positive, do you understand? There is another step, the total step. Absolute openness, limitlessness, the cause of being. It is not thinkable or definable. It is an absolute abyss that you look into and dissolve into. It is a total action, and in doing it, you realize from form that your ultimate nature is openness, limitlessness. Beyond being. 

Take the possibility like possible 

Just to make it more clear, just don't think 5 second. İn that 5 second, there is no you, just total "no word, experience, realization, me, you, universe, good bad, positive or negative".

That's it.

[SOUL]

On 8/7/2025 at 10:44 AM, Breakingthewall said:

Your tone is very aggressive. Do you have self-esteem issues? Perhaps you should try real spirituality. But you have to look in the mirror without a mask. Could you?

Ad hominem so cry more

Edited August 18 by SOUL

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Ad hominem so cry more

I'm tired of this forum. It's a absolute loss of time and energy. Be here is humiliating to me. I feel pathetic sharing space with you. As I don't like feeling so loser and so pathetic, I have to find another place to share, or just write for myself and let's see what I could do. Here, the vibration is so sad. So loser. 

Good luck, nothing to do here. 

Edited August 18 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

This thread show me that it's time to abandon this pathetic activity. Shame that this place has become what has become, but this is a fact, a reality. It's time to divorce. Too much toxicity. To low potential to development. I think I tried my best here. But what you find is toxic people, sad people without any real intention of development that make you feel pathetic just for answering. This is the mediocrity. Anyone who tries to do something is humiliated. Goodbye, pathetic mediocrities. Be happy in your pathetic mediocrity if you can. 

You are a depressing crew, except very few exceptions. Sharing with you send me to the depression. 

 

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm tired of this forum. It's a absolute loss of time and energy. Be here is humiliating to me. I feel pathetic sharing space with you. As I don't like feeling so looser and so pathetic, I have to find another place to share, or just write for myself and let's see what I could do. Here, the vibration is so sad. So looser. 

Good luck, nothing to do here. 

 

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

This thread show me that it's time to abandon this pathetic activity. Shame that this place has become what has become, but this is a fact, a reality. It's time to divorce. Too much toxicity. To low potential to development. I think I tried my best here. But what you find is toxic people, sad people without any real intention of development that make you feel pathetic just for answering. This is the mediocrity. Anyone who tries to do something is humiliated. Goodbye, pathetic mediocrities. Be happy in your pathetic mediocrity if you can. 

You are a depressing crew, except very few exceptions. Sharing with you send me to the depression. 

 

My brother, Toxicity, suffering, and disturbance are only thoughts appearing in the Being. Within them lies the possibility of the highest letting go, for when the mind surrenders, all duality falls away. Even the poison reveals the Being, which is ever pure and untouched.

It’s like the fire of difficulty burning away attachment, the more intense the struggle, the deeper the surrender can be.

[SOUL]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm tired of this forum. It's a absolute loss of time and energy. Be here is humiliating to me. I feel pathetic sharing space with you. As I don't like feeling so loser and so pathetic, I have to find another place to share, or just write for myself and let's see what I could do. Here, the vibration is so sad. So loser. 

Good luck, nothing to do here. 

If you are god and create your own reality why would you create this for yourself? Here's something you can consider...

On 8/7/2025 at 10:44 AM, Breakingthewall said:

Your tone is very aggressive. Do you have self-esteem issues? Perhaps you should try real spirituality. But you have to look in the mirror without a mask. Could you?

It seems you are really just talking to yourself.

 

[Carl-Richard]

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

let it go, it will come back better.

 

[Schizophonia]

If my spirituality leads me into more conflict situations then it is useless.

And this happens when spirituality actually leads to a denser ego somewhere in its structure, even when it's about non-duality and/or that 5 MeO DMT is involved.
Psychedelics are not effective in breaking down neurotic structures, I'm now certain of it.

And the denser a structure, the more it will resist information transfer with other alternative structures, and resistance is felt as humiliation.

If my structure is open, then either something is wrong and I take note, no problem, or someone who contradicts me is wrong and I have no reason to react, even if they are sometimes openly hostile, because it's not our karma.

If my structure is closed, then it becomes threatening and I will feel humiliated.
And at the same time, even if it's in denial, I will find myself actually trying to humiliate other people's structures.
Because if I refuse to humiliate others, it means they are right, and therefore I am humiliated.
It's the same thing; the mirror effect works like that here.

Edited August 19 by Schizophonia

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

If my spirituality leads me into more conflict situations then it is useless.

And this happens when spirituality actually leads to a denser ego somewhere in its structure, even when it's about non-duality and/or that 5 MeO DMT is involved.
Psychedelics are not effective in breaking down neurotic structures, I'm now certain of it.

And the denser a structure, the more it will resist information transfer with other alternative structures, and resistance is felt as humiliation.

If my structure is open, then either something is wrong and I take note, no problem, or someone who contradicts me is wrong and I have no reason to react, even if they are sometimes openly hostile, because it's not our karma.

If my structure is closed, then it becomes threatening and I will feel humiliated.
And at the same time, even if it's in denial, I will find myself actually trying to humiliate other people's structures.
Because if I refuse to humiliate others, it means they are right, and therefore I am humiliated.
It's the same thing; the mirror effect works like that here.

@SchizophoniaWow. Nicely put. Giving great insight to some situations I have been experiencing. 

I am also certain that psychedelics are very limited at breaking down these structures. I had this feeling several times, when I talked to people (who sometimes I've known for a long time) that told me how great psychedelics are in doing this job. Then I asked them how often they did this psychedelic. After their answer I stayed silent. 

Quote

And the denser a structure, the more it will resist information transfer with other alternative structures, and resistance is felt as humiliation.

Amazing. I have experienced this connection, but I could not grasp it like that. 

Quote

And at the same time, even if it's in denial, I will find myself actually trying to humiliate other people's structures.
Because if I refuse to humiliate others, it means they are right, and therefore I am humiliated.

 

Yeah I can see situations where this happened right in front of me. 

There is IME also another reaction that can occur - I feel humiliated, and because of this remove myself from the situation, and thus remove the source of information, the alternative structure - the other person - out of my field of awareness. 

You need some strength, some experience with conflict to humiliate the other one. Because you have to fear a potential retaliation if you do. And if you are afraid of this, afraid of conflict in general, you don't do this. You retreat. Flight or fight. 

Edited August 19 by theleelajoker

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Schizophonia

This is a really great concept to understand these dynamics and where the emotional loading comes into idea debates.

I can see how it gets very twisted internally and how emotions come up in what would appear like a factual idea discussion.

Humans, in the end, cannot help being attached to thinking. This is 'MY' idea/concept/map.

Most of the time in my own process, I have a thought or idea, and a lot less attachment to it than the typical layperson. I don't (or I try not to) attach myself to it. It does happen nevertheless. It's why when I engage in debates, especially on the forum, I am prepared to be triggered/humiliated, as it is during the discussion process I discover an emotional reaction which reveals a new attachment I was not aware of. So discussion on this platform acts to supplement my own growth and self discovery. The same mechanism is at work through every type of social interaction. It is most at play in my work environment. And I am well versed in humiliation and intellectual defeat at work, so I am somewhat hardened to the feeling and it no longer feels negative.

So at the end of each day, I spend an hour or two contemplating how I reacted and to what. Where the reaction came from, and where I was attaching and deriving a sense of self to my actions and thoughts. I just do this while I walk home, walk the dog and engage in winddown routines readying for the next day.

I actually welcome the feeling of humiliation. There is something there to learn

This is also the reason I stress acting out in reality and engaging in the physical world to supplement the spiritual process. Reality is the reflection of the inside, and when something large shifts internally you see it play out in the real world. Sitting in non-engagement removes feedback.

Most of the time though, my frustration and humiliation arises from my inability to express and communicate in a way the other person can understand.

[theleelajoker]

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

This is also the reason I stress acting out in reality and engaging in the physical world to supplement the spiritual process. Reality is the reflection of the inside, and when something large shifts internally you see it play out in the real world. Sitting in non-engagement removes feedback.

(Bold by me.)

@Natasha Tori MaruYes it's crazy, once I have recognized this, everything changes. It's funny because cultural conditioning tells us something different - there's always someone else to blame, some external cause, stuff independent from our own actions, believes.

It seems to me it's (often) enough to direct attention towards something. Yesterday, about the same time @Schizophonia wrote his post, I had a conversation with a long time meditator about how some people refuse valuable information while others just say "interesting tell me more".  Some time later I read this and think "ahh that's funny" 😅 

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

Most of the time though, my frustration and humiliation arises from my inability to express and communicate in a way the other person can understand.

I get you here, communication is a skill. You can go great lengths if you can individualize your message for every person in every moment. You can also achieve a lot when your general baseline communication is calm, open, non-aggressive, non-threatening, non-preaching. Then less individualization is required because you already have in mind not triggering the defenses mechanisms of the human psyche.

But I guess it's also a matter of time and energy. How much of myself am I willing to give?

Plus: people need a motivation that is strong enough to be open to listening. Avoidance of suffering or possibility of pleasure. 

Edited August 20 by theleelajoker

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@theleelajoker 🎯

It goes deeper as well.

You realize adjusting the inner world changes what happens in the outer. And then you see the thinking mind runs counter to the intuitive nature of consciousness. OBE's, psychic phenomenon, remote viewing etc can all be tapped into through intuitive forms of consciousness but ONLY when the thinking mind is stopped. You realize thinking is actually pushing your focus all over the place and you are missing the key pieces you NEED to notice in reality, to punch through into the intelligence of consciousness. And that is where the openness concept comes in. Open to seeing everything and finding the precise opportunity. Probability in your field.

The MOMENT you start thinking - you have an intention, an aim. And that thinking intention immediately acts to block out the opportunity that presents itself. As soon as you begin to think, you introduce bias. You blind yourself. You miss the que from reality to act. That bias needs to completely go for psychic/esp/obe type phenomenon to work. This is why meditation meditation meditation!

Just my experience so far with OBE/psychic stuff and remote viewing  

I realize this might sound a bit odd - but the thinking mind is the enemy for consciousness work for me!