Anti human spirituality

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 The self structure of that boy is the reality, same than any other self, it's an expression of reality that occurs in the flow of reality, in which it unfolds as an observer, a subject who receives or processes an object, a perceiver who perceives. It can close in on itself, creating an apparent center that must be protected, or open itself to the flow and recognize itself as the flow. To do so, it must align itself, open itself, but it does not cease to be what it is. Its structure is real, just as real as the structure of anything else that exists. And as anything that exists is flowing and changing without pause

And what does aligned or unaligned behavior look like? Does it have any ramifications or distinguishing qualities?

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And what does aligned or unaligned behavior look like? Does it have any ramifications or distinguishing qualities?

I'd say that aligning is a process where the self is totally equalized with the external reality, but this doesn't mean that the self is not real, or that the self dissapeared. The self and the reality are one, They are in total harmony, there is no resistance but symbiosis, but there is self.

Anyway, this is an ideal, not my case. For me it's enough that my self can be transparent in some moments and let the totality manifest. 

Edited August 12 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

 

Anti human spiritual talk about the “ego” and the need for “validation” starts from a flawed assumption: that the drive to be accepted and validated is merely a shallow whim of the narrative self, something that can be dismissed as an illusion.

That drive It is an atavistic mechanism, embedded in the nervous system and the body’s energy through millions of years of evolution, not just in humans, but in mammals in general. For most of human (and mammalian) history, integration into the group was a matter of literal survival: to be cast out meant hunger, unprotected exposure, and lethal risk. This evolutionary pressure shaped our neural and energetic pathways to seek acceptance intensely and automatically.

Dismissing this with phrases like “it’s all illusion” or “you don’t need validation” ignores the fact that the impulse arises before any mental narrative. It comes from much deeper layers: biological reflexes, cellular memory, and relational structures.

Real work is not about suppressing or denying this mechanism, but about understanding it fully. When you see it for what it is, you can stop being enslaved by it. That means:

Giving yourself the validation you once sought externally.

Resolving, as much as possible, the wounds and perceived injustices that keep the need alive.

No longer allowing other people’s acceptance or rejection to define your intrinsic value.

And to be able to do that, you have to be true, without stain. Aligned. And this is not something that you would achieve in a moment, but through an ongoing process of integration, truthfulness, and dismantling of false structures within yourself.

The difference is simple but essential: denial leaves the impulse intact in the depths, only covered over; letting go happens when you see it clearly, without judgment or feeding it, and then it loses its power.

Denying human (and mammalian) nature is not transcendence. It is violence against it. Understanding it and liberating it is what opens the door to its deepest dimension.

If your spirituality needs you to amputate the very mechanisms that made you who you are, it is not freedom, it is self-erasure disguised as awakening.

 

[AION]

Denial of your human nature is low consciousness spirituality. Alien consciousness and shit is bullshit as long as you can’t upgrade your human body. 

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that aligning is a process where the self is totally equalized with the external reality, but this doesn't mean that the self is not real, or that the self dissapeared. The self and the reality are one, They are in total harmony, there is no resistance but symbiosis, but there is self.

Anyway, this is an ideal, not my case. For me it's enough that my self can be transparent in some moments and let the totality manifest. 

What does an aligned person look like? Describe their behavior. Are they generally worried, anxious, dwelling on the past, indecisive, etc.?

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What does an aligned person look like? Describe their behavior. Are they generally worried, anxious, dwelling on the past, indecisive, etc.?

No, flowing with the flow. But that doesn't mean that the haven't a self. 

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, flowing with the flow. But that doesn't mean that the haven't a self. 

How do you become anxious, worried, etc.?

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How do you become anxious, worried, etc.?

Because your survival programming is threatened 

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because your survival programming is threatened 

What is it that survives? It it the ego? And if anxiety and worry reduces, what happens to the ego? Does it maybe, reduce? So aligning with reality reduces ego? Hmmm.

Edited August 12 by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

What is it that survives? It it the ego? And if anxiety and worry reduces, what happens to the ego? Does it maybe, reduce? So aligning with reality reduces ego? Hmmm.

No, What survives is an enormously complex energy system we call human, which can die at any moment. It's a stable form that reality is now taking. What can't die is reality, but the human form can, and this form isn't an illusion; it's a form. Anxiety and worry are just energetic vibrations that are happening. Harmony and alignment are other energetic vibrations, bot are possibilities of the energetic sistem that we call human. 

Energetic means relations btw, not some mysterious energy. 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, What survives is an enormously complex energy system we call human, which can die at any moment. It's a stable form that reality is now taking. What can't die is reality, but the human form can, and this form isn't an illusion; it's a form. Anxiety and worry are just energetic vibrations that are happening. Harmony and alignment are other energetic vibrations, bot are possibilities of the energetic sistem that we call human. 

Energetic means relations btw, not some mysterious energy. 

You're trying so hard to not use the word "ego" 😂 

@Natasha Tori Maru This is an example of a language game.

Tip: start using concepts in your thinking, let words be secondary. Words are surface-level tools for conveying underlying concepts. To get yourself in a twist about using the words "dropping ego" vs "aligning with reality", that's to get in a twist about words.

The ego resists reality. When you align with reality, you drop the ego. It's as simple as that. Now, dropping the ego does not mean becoming a plant, or becoming an ascetic, or relinquishing all your possessions. That's a misunderstanding of what the ego is. Now, using words like "aligning with reality" can help you to deal with this misunderstanding, but to present it as a completely different thing, that is indeed also a misunderstanding.

Edited August 13 by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Carl-Richard

I've been following this conversation and indeed - I was literally posting just as you wrote the above this is the context issue. Now really that is a psychic happening. No shit there - I just sat down at work to take a 5 minute break, begun typing a response that this thread exemplifies your language game point, and then you posted THIS of all things! Another example of psychic stuff and how it always happens TO me. Can't directly cause it. My gosh!

Good pointers above - shooting on the right track for sure! 

Quote

Because your survival programming is threatened

Programming here stood out to me - its precisely the 'program' in the computer that we are talking about isn't real. The computer is the physical parts - the programming is software that can be loaded/unloaded. ctrl+alt+delete 

I like how you are steering this. Doing better than me!

Edited August 12 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Breakingthewall]

55 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're trying so hard to not use the word "ego" 😂 

@Natasha Tori Maru This is an example of a language game.

Tip: start using concepts in your thinking, let words be secondary. Words are surface-level tools for conveying underlying concepts. To get yourself in a twist about using the words "dropping ego" vs "aligning with reality", that's to get in a twist about words.

The ego resists reality. When you align with reality, you drop the ego. It is as simple as that. Now, dropping the ego does not mean become a plant, or become an ascetic, or relinquish all your possessions. That's a misunderstanding of what the ego is. Now, using words like "aligning with reality" can help you to deal with this misunderstanding, but to present it as a completely different thing in itself, that is indeed also a misunderstanding.

Maybe you don't understand what I'm saying.  

42 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Now really that is a psychic happening. No shit there

That's because you both operates in the same level. You can't understand what Im saying because you are in the conceptual limited level, believing that is me who is in the conceptual limited level, and both use condescendence. I'm talking from another perspective, from the broad one. Maybe someone who's reading this can see it. If not it's ok, it's not a topic to argue

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's because you both operates in the same level. You can't understand what Im saying because you are in the conceptual level, believing that is me who is in the conceptual level. I'm talking from another perspective, from the broad one. Maybe someone who's reading this can see it. If not it's ok, it's not a topic to argue

Doesn't account for the posts happening simultaneously - like @Carl-Richard and I were on the other side of the planet, but typing the same thing at the same time. That is the confluence that stands out to me - not the fact we conversed on a topic in another thread. The conversation was the context only

 

Edited August 13 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Conflating disagree and condescending.

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Doesn't account for the posts happening simultaneously - like @Carl-Richard and I were on the other side of the planet, but typing the same thing at the same time. That is the confluence that stands out to me - not the fact we conversed on a topic in another thread. The conversation was the context only

 

Yeah that's a coincidence. Anyway, read what I said if you want, maybe you can see what I want to point . 

13 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Conflating disagree and condescending.

No, it's different, if now I say: well, you speak from learned beliefs,  really you are stuck In concepts, etc , same than You and the other user said without touching a single point that is said is just condescendence and I don't understand exactly what do you get saying that. Defending a position? Better be opened to the truth . Anyway, sorry for get triggered, it's stupid, stress and work day

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The ego resists reality. When you align with reality, you drop the ego. It is as simple as that. Now, dropping the ego does not mean become a plant, or become an ascetic, or relinquish all your possessions.

Sure, then dropping the ego means what? For example, if you see a rapist raping your girlfriend, your no ego, what could do? Singing? Maybe starting cooking? Because you ve no ego, anything is the same. Or maybe you could fight? Because your ego is aligning with what reality wants from you. Your ego is an structure and have to decide to fight, how to fight, when exactly, be strong against fear, then calculate exactly what to do. Your "ego" is not your ego, is the reality. If has to "resist" because resistance means nothing, it's just another vibration of reality. Your ego not aligned was the reality exactly the same , but not aligned, closed, in process to evolution 

"Ego" means nothing, what you consider ego is self image, the layer of narcisism . That's just a layer 

Again, sorry before for that about condescending, Im almost sleeping, long day 

Edited August 13 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

On 8/2/2025 at 11:35 AM, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

Most of the spirituality It is based on the denial of human nature.  The mind is seen as a prison, desire as suffering, and the ego as the great enemy. This view, even when disguised as non-duality, is rooted in a radical dualism: the real versus the illusory, the pure versus the corrupt, the divine versus the human.

The result is a deeply unnatural spirituality. The human being is asked to renounce himself, to nullify himself, to stop being what he is . to cut off all vital direction, every impulse, every expression. At its core, this view conveys the idea that reality has made a mistake , the human being, and that this mistake must be corrected through effort, discipline, and denial. The basis of spirituality usually is the elimination of the ego. Seems that being human is wrong, then we should point to be a plant, that "just be". This is achieved erasing the "falsehood", that is the ego mind. Have the birds ego? Aren't they perfect? Then, why aren't you a bird. Then, we find people trying to be a egoless bird with the giant effort of their ego to stop being humans. They will say: I'm enlightened, now there is not suffering. Well, no, enlightenment happened, and there is nobody here, because who was here was an illusion. It's difficult to be more controller.

this vision is false. There is no mistake in human nature, as it's an expression of the reality. The human structure is not to be eliminated, but understood and opened. What the human being needs is not to erase himself, but to open fully to what is. To understand that his form, with all its nuances, is part of the infinite flow. The ego does not need to be killed , it needs to be seen. The mind does not need to be crushed, it need to be open. Desire doesn't need to be erased, must to be aligned.

True openness is not about becoming a plant. It is about living without a mask, from within the structure we are, but open to what has no bottom. It means integrating complexity, desire, conflict, and the creative power that is the human being, and allowing it all to dissolve into something vaster, be one with the flow.

Or maybe do you think that reality made a mistake and YOU have to solve it?

That's not what Spirituality is about.  True spirituality.   It's about self reflection and inquiring into the nature of the self.  The self.  Don't go inquiring into all of reality just yet. Just inquire into the self.  What you will find is that it was illusory.   What you are describing is false spirituality which is already assuming things about the self or holding pre-beliefs.  True spirituality is the unbiased inquiry into the self.  Not even knowing what anything is yet but merely starting an inquiry. 

Edited August 13 by Inliytened1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, it's different, if now I say: well, you speak from learned beliefs,  really you are stuck In concepts, etc , same than You and the other user said without touching a single point that is said is just condescendence and I don't understand exactly what do you get saying that. Defending a position? Better be opened to the truth 

All the points you raise have been addressed.

There is simply repetition of the same points like a broken record now.

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah that's a coincidence. Anyway, read what I said if you want, maybe you can see what I want to point . 

You could argue that this is contrary to your openness concept - in this example Carl and I are open to the possibility there was a psychic connection happening. You dismissed it. Just a thought.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

That's not what Spirituality is about.  True spirituality.   It's about self reflection and inquiring into the nature of the self.  The self.  Don't go to inquiring reality just yet. Just inquire into the self.  What you will find is that it was illusory.   What you are describing is false spirituality which is already assuming things or holding beliefs.  True spirituality is the unbiased inquiry into the self.

Unbiased, but you said that I should inquiry to discover that the self is illusory.