I Escaped a Cult - Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth Review

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Consilience said:

Because MAPLE is explicitly self-proclaiming unilateral spiritual authority over humanity it is precisely not a typical Zen monastery hierarchical structure nor a typical organizational hierarchical structure, such as the military. It's emphasis on using one man's ideological framework as the basis for civilizational, spiritual transformation makes it distinctly different. 

Many of the mind control techniques you list in your own cult psychology video I also listed in mine so I'm curious whether you watched the full video or perhaps missed them? Here is a list though: 

Extensive meditation, chanting, sleep deprivation, a constant high stress work load, very limited amount of free time or room for individual contemplation, instances of public humiliation, an environment that swings between love bombing and harsh anger, a total lack of personal space, constant 2-3 hour talks around ideology of head teacher, a constant emphasis on ideology (rather than contemplation) as the path to truth, a putting down of non-Buddhist teachers or spiritual teachers or thinkers that disagree with the ideology, an us vs. them mentality reinforced through mechanisms of fear, a replacing of one's personal identity with a new identity (taking on new name, dress code, etc.), very intimate, vulnerable one-on-one interviews with head teacher, warped expressions of Buddhist teachings centered around the demonization of thoughts, feelings, and the mind which act as mechanisms of the erosion of one's own self-sovereignty, authority, and trust, and of course, the classic "The world is ending!" framework. 

As far as harm, I did name multiple instances of abuse in my video that I personally witnessed. But even to take my own story - notice how little the organization considered the financial and physical vulnerability of giving me less than 24 hours notice to leave as a type 1 diabetic. The emphasis was on the suppression of dissent rather than the well being of a three year community member. 

Seems that they are a group of people with very low level of maturity, with a lot of trauma, who are looking identity in spirituality. Then, if you are in that game, well, it's because you are in that wave (a quite anxious vawe), and if you aren't, you abandon as you did. 

Take it as an experience to mature yourself, to understand that spirituality is personal, absolute inner freedom, and that any imposition is precisely the opposite of what spirituality is. An organized group of spiritual people is the exact opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is about leaving the herd, not changing herds.

[Carl-Richard]

Wh-what? I swear I just yesterday read a bit of your old thread from 2022. And now I saw this thread. What a synchronicity. Or coincidence? Conscilience?

Escaping a cult is an invaluable lesson in epistemology, the nature of beliefs and self-deception. Speaking from experience 🙂 (and out of respect for the topic, I'm not going to vaguepost about it: I was in Rali's spiritual community from 2017-2018).

Edited July 25, 2025 by Carl-Richard

[Consilience]

17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Wh-what? I swear I just yesterday read a bit of your old thread from 2022. And now I saw this thread. What a synchronicity. Or concidence? Conscilience?

 

17 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Escaping a cult is an invaluable lesson in epistemology, the nature of beliefs and self-deception. Speaking from experience 🙂 (and out of respect for the topic, I'm not going to vaguepost around it: I was in Rali's spiritual community from 2017-2018).

Yeah it is, and to make the decision despite the overwhelmingly toxic group think and social pressure is a lesson in mental resiliency and integrity. It's very sad in this particular example because of how different it was when I began there. However in hindsight, the possibility of its devolving into a more run of the mill like cult were there from the beginning. 

Appreciate the vulnerability and share! 

[Consilience]

A friend sent me a link to a medium article that was posted July 9th, 2025 completely unrelated to my release of this video, but that shares another story of these same dynamics. Very interesting timing. 

It's a very quick read, you can check it out here:
https://medium.com/@monasticacademyresident/my-experience-inside-soryu-foralls-ai-centered-monastic-academy-769deefe6e34

[Salvijus]

"Beware of the temptation to perceive yourself unfairly treated." 

[Inliytened1]

@Consilience very interesting.  I'm glad you were able to get out.  Listened to your video and a few of your others.  Nice channel.   Do you think the guru was actually enlightened?  You mentioned you used meditation to uncover what was going on - did you feel you at least grew spiritually from the whole experience?  Again sorry you encountered this but props for realizing it and getting out.  Don't beat yourself up to badly about how long it took.  

[Inliytened1]

On 7/23/2025 at 8:11 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Consilience Well, I finished watching your whole video.

I did not understand what made this organization a cult. It sounds like you had disagreements with leadership decisions and values and in typical Zen hierarchical fashion they are not a democracy and don't want your feedback.

From the things you spoke, it's hard for me to classify that as a cult. It sounds more like a typical hierarchical organization.

I don't mean to dismiss your claims. But from your video I did not hear serious abuse or mind-control techniques. From what I heard from you in the video, your biggest complaint is that leadership did not listen to your suggestions.

I am left thinking: either you did not communicate the abuse, or MAPLE is not a cult.

Perhaps you wish to communicate more.

I cannot post that video as an example of a cult. It sounds more like a dissatisfied customer.

Perhaps there were more things he didn't get into..but i tend to agree from what i heard in the video.  @Consilience what other behavior was exhibited that would put it in a cult category rather then just control by position. 

Using control by keeping certain people down and not wanting to hear any feedback is still bad and he was good for getting away from it.   

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Consilience very interesting.  I'm glad you were able to get out.  Listened to your video and a few of your others.  Nice channel.   Do you think the guru was actually enlightened?  You mentioned you used meditation to uncover what was going on - did you feel you at least grew spiritually from the whole experience?  Again sorry you encountered this but props for realizing it and getting out.  Don't beat yourself up to badly about how long it took.  

Thank you. 

Was he actually enlightened? I think Soryu has had direct experiences of the Absolute yes, but that it's not as deep or transformative as would be expected of a man claiming global spiritual authority. The lack of realization slowly revealed itself the more time I spent in the community. On the surface he's very impressive, very charismatic, very persuasive, and has an enormous amount of energy which creates a kind of transmission by being in his presence, which is indicative of having access to very deep states of consciousness via meditation. 

Yes the whole experience was enormously transformative, spiritually, in so many ways. 

And thank you for the kind words of encourage. 

Edited July 28, 2025 by Consilience

[Consilience]

I just wanted to update this thread for those who want an amazing case study in cult psychology and an update to the on-going unraveling of the MAPLE situation - 

There was a four hour disclosure of someone's experience who spent more one on one time with the head teacher than perhaps anyone in the organization's history. It's a profound story and probably the deepest spiritual transmission of a teaching I've personally ever received because of how utterly human it is. 

4 hour disclosure audio substack post link

Currently the community is in a kind of allergic response, commenting and liking various comments on my video, in a scramble to improve their online reputation. I suspect this is in part because the video has continued to gain traction and because of the four hour disclosure substack, which they can't directly address, as it draws more attention to it. So instead of addressing the disclosure directly, they're now focused on attacking me. 

My video link

A MAPLE member also made a parody video of mine with a nearly identical title and style - a kind of spoof. To not draw more attention to it, I'm not going to bother linking but it's easy to find and quite funny to watch. As well as posted two blog posts about me comparing me to the Buddhist demon mara. 

The whole thing is rather dramatic and pathetic. Again, sharing this update more so because the MAPLE situation truly is a great case study of these cult dynamics and how dramatically collective movements can turn sour and poisonous. 

Edit: And also as Leo himself pointed out with his earlier comment about feeling blueballed, the substack goes into much greater detail than my video does. And it's also important to keep in mind even the substack post is only one story and no way comprehensive of everything that's taken place, particularly behind closed doors. 

Edited Sunday at 09:58 PM by Consilience

[Carl-Richard]

I think it's hilarious how strongly Leo disagreed on you categorizing it as a cult throughout the thread, despite you feeling strongly compelled to call it a cult. Almost makes you think 🤫

 

I wonder what you think about my "cult" experience. Was it a cult? And then, is it categorically distinguishable from this place?

Edited Sunday at 11:40 PM by Carl-Richard

[Consilience]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think it's hilarious how strongly Leo disagreed on you categorizing it as a cult throughout the thread, despite you feeling strongly compelled to call it a cult. Almost makes you think 🤫

This is a really important point actually. MAPLE is absolutely a cult, by all standards. Is is drinking literal death koolaid mass suicide level cult? No. But is it highly sophisticated elite level forms of mind control, manipulation, indoctrination, emotional/spiritual abuse, and clinically narcissistic charismatic leader trying to create a new world religion to save the world with varying degrees of sexual exploitation levels of cult? Yes. 

Leo accidentally and unintentionally defending MAPLE has actually worked advantageously for them for them - it was mentioned in one of their recent comments as evidence I'm just being a bully. Quote, "Even the cult callout guy on actualized.org calls out this video: "sounds like a dissatisfied customer." He felt blueballed by this video." So... Yeah.

BUT LEO... c'mon man! You're supposed to be "the cult callout guy" 

More precise details of the abuse present at MAPLE are especially clear from the substack post I linked. 

I should also mention one of the unfortunate qualities of my video was that yes it was somewhat vague, but I also really had no idea how the organization was going to react or respond. The video's primary purpose has essentially served as a kind of lighthouse warning people not to go, as well as make it safer for others to come forward. 

[Consilience]

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I wonder what you think about my "cult" experience. Was it a cult? And then, is it categorically distinguishable from this place?

There are certainly clear structural differences and similarities between the two. MAPLE was in person, moved in direct of explicitly wanting to create a new world religion, etc... But there is a core similarity that there was a highly charismatic leader at the center clearly consolidating power over time via manipulation and domination. 

From what your describing, the seeds of true cult formation were present in that discord server so even if it hadn't fully unfolded into a full blown cult by the standards Leo presented in his videos on cult psychology, given that the seeds were present it seems appropriate to call it a cult, or at the very least a proto-cult. 

Being able to recognize the seeds as being distinct but inseparable from the end result, in the same way an acorn is distinct but simultaneously inseparable from the oak tree, is incredibly important when it comes to relational attunement and healthy relationship. 

All that to say, yeah sure, Id feel comfortable calling the discord server a cult. Even if from a purely conceptual and intellectual definition it doesn't check all the boxes, from an energetic and attuned to the non-conceptual unfolding of reality level, it's moving in a cult like direction sufficiently enough to be worth staying away from and referring to as a cult, in my opinion.  

[Consilience]

Per Leo's provided definition - "A cult is a fringe group that uses deliberate mind control techniques to extract money, sex, and power from its user base. A cult is about abusing and exploiting its members in a pyramid like structure." 

Given this was somehow not clear from my video last summer...

18 hours ago, Consilience said:

There was a four hour disclosure of someone's experience who spent more one on one time with the head teacher than perhaps anyone in the organization's history. It's a profound story and probably the deepest spiritual transmission of a teaching I've personally ever received because of how utterly human it is. 

4 hour disclosure audio substack post link

The hierarchical extraction across financial, sexual, operational, and spiritual dimensions is demonstrated with exceeding clarity from this testimony.

The end result of the mind control techniques MAPLE weaponizes against its guests and members is demonstrated in real time via the allergic reaction/response in the YouTube comment section of my video as well as the different forms of online media MAPLE has been having its members put out recently. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

BUT LEO... c'mon man! You're supposed to be "the cult callout guy"

I sympathize with you if this thing was really a cult.

But from the video I remember watching some years ago of yours, I did honestly feel like the dirt was missing. This was probably just a matter of communication skill.

I'm sure from your POV, it's obviously a cult, but that didn't come across as clearly as you imagined in your first video.

That doesn't mean I am denying your thing was a cult, just that it is not obvious to me from your video. When you make such a serious accusation publicly, you have to lay out a clear, definitive case, which can be difficult to do, especially if you're not skilled in this type of communication, or just lack the evidence.

I simply don't have enough information to know if your thing was truly a cult. But generally I am inclined to believe you. I am certainly not defending this organization I don't even know.

I can see how getting tangible dirt on a cult can be difficult. It's kind of like a rape accusation.

Edited 14 hours ago by Leo Gura

[integral]

@Razard86  cults don't take epistemology seriously, they don't talk about it, it's not part of their vocabulary

Edited 14 hours ago by integral

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Consilience said:

There are certainly clear structural differences and similarities between the two. MAPLE was in person, moved in direct of explicitly wanting to create a new world religion, etc... But there is a core similarity that there was a highly charismatic leader at the center clearly consolidating power over time via manipulation and domination. 

From what your describing, the seeds of true cult formation were present in that discord server so even if it hadn't fully unfolded into a full blown cult by the standards Leo presented in his videos on cult psychology, given that the seeds were present it seems appropriate to call it a cult, or at the very least a proto-cult. 

Being able to recognize the seeds as being distinct but inseparable from the end result, in the same way an acorn is distinct but simultaneously inseparable from the oak tree, is incredibly important when it comes to relational attunement and healthy relationship. 

All that to say, yeah sure, Id feel comfortable calling the discord server a cult. Even if from a purely conceptual and intellectual definition it doesn't check all the boxes, from an energetic and attuned to the non-conceptual unfolding of reality level, it's moving in a cult like direction sufficiently enough to be worth staying away from and referring to as a cult, in my opinion.  

My point is

• MAPLE already called itself a cult, presumably while implying it's not a bad thing.
• I have trouble distinguishing the Discord "cult" from this forum with respect to Leo's definition (or any salient definition) of a cult.
• Leo's definition of a cult which he cherrypicks from one "expert" (an MD with personal experience of a cult, which makes me and you just as qualified as experts), has the trouble of defining what mind control is, what funneling of sex/money/power looks like. This is not a critique I'm making (while I agree with it), this is a critique scholars have been making of Leo's "expert".
• Consistent with how it's hard to define these specific things, scholars seem to agree more or less on a very general definition of "a cult is a social group with deviant beliefs compared to the surrounding society, often religious in nature". This resonates with MAPLE's self-identification as a cult, it resonates with why I want to call the Discord I was a part of a cult, it resonates with why you want to call MAPLE a cult (I'll explain), and it resonates with why people call Actualized.org a cult.
• For further "proof" underscoring this point, you will feel compelled to call a doomsday cult a cult even if they were the most benign and socially/personally/psychologically non-threatening group of people (no "mind control techniques", you're always free to leave, they don't want your money, no "sexual exploitation", etc.). It is because they are a group with highly deviant beliefs compared to the surrounding society (and it would probably classify as religious in nature).

It is when the experiences in the cult becomes challenging somehow, that we ourselves want to label it a cult, but it becomes hard to pinpoint exactly what changed, because the dynamics are always there in some form. "Mind control", "funneling sex/money/power", is always there in some sense. That's why they're hard to define and why there is always doubt and two sides of the story and why people fall for them at all. They are subtle and pervasive, at least in the beginning. And they can become very severe, without a doubt, but it's like boiling a frog: it starts in water, the water has an existing temperature, and you slowly crank up the temperature so it doesn't notice.

For example, MAPLE decided to call themselves a cult (interestingly, Bentinho Massaro's community did the same). Is that a form of mind control (they "devalue" the concept by making it benign)? What about Leo who wants to use a very stringent and non-benign definition of a cult? Is that mind control (by making it very stringent and thus making his community supposedly not fall under the definition and he can point to cults as being something external to his community)? Where does the line go between mind control and simply controlling the narrative, presenting one view over another, in a way that might benefit oneself and one's interests?

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What about Leo who wants to use a very stringent and non-benign definition of a cult? Is that mind control

Dude. What the fuck am I reading?

No, that's not mind control.

You guys still don't understand what a cult is after dozens of documentaries, videos, books, and things I shared.

Constantly implying that I run a cult is disrespectful. It makes me not even want to teach you anything.

By watering down what a cult is you are actually helping real cults.

The boy who cried wolf.

"Who knows what a wolf is? Maybe this rabbit is a wolf? Who can say? After all, it has 4 legs and fur, just like a wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolfffff!"

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura