Is going vegan necessary for truth seekers ?

[Majed]

As i do more truth seeking i realize that eating animals for food when it’s optional is not ethical. And that i need to change my lifestyle to align myself with the truth.
I recommend we all reflect upon our decision to eat animals and whether it is ethical and in alignment with the truth. 

[Schizophonia]

Who decides what is ethical or not

[Majed]

@Schizophonia Common sense. Can you agree that murdering a human is unethical ? Apply the same logic to killing animals for food when it is unnecessary. 

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Schizophonia Common sense.

It's common sense i'm the coolest french guy that never existed.

2 minutes ago, Majed said:

Can you agree that murdering a human is unethical ?

It's not desirable because other humans are protected by justice, because they pay their taxes/participates to the social contact in general. So if i eat my neighbor they risk to put me in jail.

I'm also not so sociopathic so my brain creates empathy towards others humans beings, less with domesticated animals, even less for farm animals, etcetc up to the empathy I can have for a carrot.

2 minutes ago, Majed said:

Apply the same logic to killing animals for food when it is unnecessary. 

Yes, but what if I want a nice barbecue with the bros? What's going to happen?
Strictly speaking, if you were talking about karma or divine punishment, it would be logical because I don't want to suffer, but here you're essentially projecting your superego's conditioning through "ethics."

Find me logical, tangible reasons; health can be one even if I don't agree/it doesn't interest me.

[cistanche_enjoyer]

I think it depends on your current health status and genetics. Some healthy people may do fine on a vegan diet if coupled with appropriate supplementation.

But most people nowadays have some sort of chronic health issue, simply due to living in the modern world (pollution, heavy metals, microplastics, electromagnetic radiation, etc.). In this case, consuming animal products like eggs, grass-fed beef, liver, milk, cheese, etc. will provide lots of essential nutrients that are necessary for optimal health (vegan foods don’t come nowhere near in terms of quality/quantity/bioavailability of nutrients). 

In the end, for seeking truth, you want your health to be optimal so your mind can be sharp and focused on truth. If this implies eating animal products, so be it.

[Travisty]

I think what's more important is getting proper nutrients. Everyone is different and there is no one size fits all diet. You need to experiment and learn to listen to your mind and body to discover what works best for you.

In general though cutting out processed foods and sugar as much as possible will do more for you than anything else. Also just drinking enough water (quality water I might add with as little added chemicals as possible) is a huge first step for many.

I would recommend the book, "How to Eat Move and Be Healthy" by Paul Check as a good starting point. The man is a genius when it comes to holistic health. He looks incredible for his age. 

Eating meat isn't immoral really because if you think about it it's part of survival. Many animals have to hunt to eat or they will die that's just a fact. What is immoral is the factory farming you mainly see today which produces sick animals with poisoned meat.

Personally I am pescetarian and eat little to no dairy. I have found that's what works best for me. Unfortunately the ocean is very polluted though so sourcing good fish is becoming increasingly difficult and expensive. The main benefit to being vegan is cost. To truly eat meat that could be considered healthy is extremely expensive in most cases. 

[Breakingthewall]

You could eat milk and eggs from happy animals, are much better than meat.

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could eat milk and eggs from happy animals, are much better than meat.

Why

Everyone will die anyway; an animal can be happy before being killed while dairy cows and laying hens can be mistreated.

It's more healthy to eat meat, meat is more nutrition and less immunologic, we are meat eaters.

[Schizophonia]

I want to die Salvia dimention; I would ask the elves to euthanize me before eating me to pass on my coolness to them.

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Why

Everyone will die anyway; an animal can be happy before being killed while dairy cows and laying hens can be mistreated.

It's more healthy to eat meat, meat is more nutrition and less immunologic, we are meat eaters.

I eat meat sometimes but I don't like the way animals are treated on factory farms. Furthermore, meat is full of hormones and antibiotics, and fish is contaminated with heavy metals. Intuitively, I think it's healthier to eat vegetables, whey protein, kefir, and eggs. They're easy to find from organic farms; they're a little more expensive, but not that expensive.

My perception is that not eating meat translates into better machine performance. 

[Schizophonia]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I eat meat sometimes but I don't like the way animals are treated on factory farms. Furthermore, meat is full of hormones and antibiotics,

You will be way more exposed to heavy metals and especially pesticides by eating vegetables than you will be exposed to hormones and antibiotics by eating meat.

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and fish is contaminated with heavy metals.

It depends of the fish and the breeding

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Intuitively, I think it's healthier to eat vegetables, whey protein, kefir, and eggs. They're easy to find from organic farms; they're a little more expensive, but not that expensive.

It's true

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My perception is that not eating meat translates into better machine performance. 

It's illogical because we have evoled by eating meat and meat is what you crave.

Nobody never said "oh my god i'm so hungry i worked a lot today, i crave so much a big lettuce and a bowl of plain kidney bean", lol.

I myself tried plant based diet and it was horrible; developped irritability, brain fog, gut issues and it was just not pleasant.

You also lose weight, but a good diet should make you eventually leaner because of its hability to be satisfying, not because it's so bad, anti-natural than you can't eat as much calories.

Edited Saturday at 02:29 PM by Schizophonia

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

You will be way more exposed to heavy metals and especially pesticides by eating vegetables than you will be exposed to hormones and antibiotics by eating meat.

Yes pesticides and hormones like paclobutrazol everywhere, it's almost impossible to avoid. Supposedly it's not so bad, but who knows , lot of cancer. 

24 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's illogical because we have evoled by eating meat and meat is what you crave.

When people lived in caves sure they ate lots of seeds and vegetables. Anyway almost everyone dies young .

Imo the point is your feeling, if you like sports and challenging your body you feel clearly what stress more your body. A lot of people agree that meat stresses, like it's heavy, dirty, inflammatory ,  makes your body works double to process it. But not everyone is the same

Edited Saturday at 02:53 PM by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

I think Alan Watts said sth like:

"Just because the rabbit screams louder then the carrot doesn't mean that the one is more alive then the other" 🐇 🥕 

I think there are good arguments in favor or against eating meat. Would go so far to say that it's necessary for truth seekers, that seems a very arbitrary and constructed logic. Truth is, that life feeds on other life, right?

 

 

[Schizophonia]

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When people lived in caves sure they ate lots of seeds and vegetables. Anyway almost everyone dies young .

There wasn't medicine, and in fact, the shift to agriculture has been correlated with a drastic decline in height, brain volume, and life expectancy.
Even today, the countries with the highest life expectancy are those with the highest meat consumption.
In developed Asian cities, where people have Westernized their diet, the average height of young people is catching up with that of Westerners, while that of Westerners is declining.

35 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Imo the point is your feeling, if you like sports and challenging your body you feel clearly what stress more your body. A lot of people agree that meat stresses, like it's heavy, dirty, inflammatory ,  makes your body works double to process it. But not everyone is the same

It's just orthorexia, people who don't like themselves and feel like shit when they treat themselves.
Meat is easily digested unless you have serious stomach acid problems, are on medication, or something like that.

[Davino]

@Majed It's a necessary part of the path for many people. It was for me at least.

If you feel the calling do it. Trust yourself. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's just orthorexia, people who don't like themselves and feel like shit when they treat themselves.
Meat is easily digested unless you have serious stomach acid problems, are on medication, or something like that.

I don't know ,I find slaughterhouses and meat processing disgusting. Hunting a deer in the tundra isn't the same as an industrial slaughterhouse

[Someone here]

Sorry to shatter your cute illusions but nature is a wild sadistic warzone and you either kill another life form or you die . And in the end both will die so what the fuck right ?

 

[Schizophonia]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't know ,I find slaughterhouses and meat processing disgusting. Hunting a deer in the tundra isn't the same as an industrial slaughterhouse

It's true, i just talked about eating meat in general.

[UnbornTao]

What do diet and lifestyle have to do with truth in the first place?

By all means - if you want to go vegan, go for it. If you want to be healthy, do healthy things. But how you live your life and the truth are different domains - at least if we're talking about truth in the factual or existential sense.

Consider this: Gautama Buddha ate meat. Why? Was he a hypocrite? Or is it that life circumstances are ultimately inconsequential to the search for truth? (There could be other possible reasons, too.)

At the end of the day, what drives your choice of what to eat - or, say, what to wear? It seems to basically come down to preference or opinion - a subjective choice.

In a way, it's like asking which outfit is best suited for questioning existence.

Edited Sunday at 11:19 AM by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

In non duality nothing matters. Like the radical non dualist Jim Newman said : Killing babies doesn’t matter. That’s non duality. And maybe it’s possibly to reach a state where you don’t care about your own or anyone else’s suffering. So it has nothing to do with truth, it’s all truth

But you aren’t in that self less state where nothing matters to you. So living by that is you not being true to yourself. Because you do in fact feel like you exist and you do care about your own suffering. You could be selfish and only care about your own suffering, but that is a kind of double standard. The golden rule says treat others as you want to be treated. On the human level that is the ideal. We should strive to reduce unnecessary suffering, it’s one of the highest things to do. Because as long as your mind is within the human level you have to operate from that place and find a path that aligns with you. Otherwise you’re fooling yourself by trying to live by some non dual truth.

Edited Saturday at 06:47 PM by Sugarcoat