Unfairnesses and injustices in dating

[StaraX]

On 4.7.2025 at 7:16 PM, Lyubov said:

This is the one thing which keeps you stuck in red pill energy, even if you haven't gone down this rabbit hole. Focusing on unfairnesses and injustices in dating, relationships, man/woman societal roles, access to sex and resources. All these imbalances, unfairnesses and injustices in society when it comes to marriage, mating and dating, grinding an axe and obsessively future proofing yourself over these is what is holding you back from seeing through the veil and finding what is authentic and true for you. You aren't keeping yourself safe by focusing on this. You aren't righting some wrong by by discussing this. Just let it go. Imagine there is a way for this entire cloud over the male psyche to disappear if you just stopped focusing on this and focused on your true value and what makes you special and unique? Imagine that by just doing that any issues you have will resolve and your relationships will unfold in a way where they are satisfying and everything works out? Try it

@Lyubov I don't know whether you're a guy or a girl, but as a guy, I can say that when you're trying to get better with women and achieve your desired outcomes, the advice you give doesn't really work for the average guy. Improving with women as an average guy is extremely challenging and usually requires years of effort. Most guys simply can't handle the emotional pain that comes with the process. Saying things like "Just let it go" isn't very practical in this context.

[theleelajoker]

46 minutes ago, StaraX said:

@Lyubov I don't know whether you're a guy or a girl, but as a guy, I can say that when you're trying to get better with women and achieve your desired outcomes, the advice you give doesn't really work for the average guy. Improving with women as an average guy is extremely challenging and usually requires years of effort. Most guys simply can't handle the emotional pain that comes with the process. Saying things like "Just let it go" isn't very practical in this context.

What's practical then in your POV?

[StaraX]

 

4 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

What's practical then in your POV?

@theleelajoker

If the goal is to get good with women and sleep with high-quality women on a regular basis, the most effective way to achieve that is through building a strong social circle and increasing your status. Status as well as being somewhat known or famous is the most efficient and optimal route to attracting high-quality women. Also, one thing women find extremely attractive is seeing other women attracted to you. You can host parties where you invite a lot of attractive women, and as the host and leader of the event, create an environment where other women naturally perceive you as desirable.

Now, if you struggle with social anxiety or you're very introverted, focus on addressing that first. Once you're more socially comfortable, work on creating a large, vibrant social circle and positioning yourself as a high-status individual. It also helps if she sees you surrounded by other high-status people.

I know Leo's advice is to go out every week and approach thousands of women over the course of two years. Personally, I don’t recommend that route, because most men can't handle the emotional toll that comes with constant rejection. Besides, high-quality women usually require significantly more value from you compared to average women. That’s why I believe building a strong social circle and focusing on status is the best way to be successful in dating as a guy.

[theleelajoker]

16 hours ago, StaraX said:

 

@theleelajoker

If the goal is to get good with women and sleep with high-quality women on a regular basis, the most effective way to achieve that is through building a strong social circle and increasing your status. Status as well as being somewhat known or famous is the most efficient and optimal route to attracting high-quality women. Also, one thing women find extremely attractive is seeing other women attracted to you. You can host parties where you invite a lot of attractive women, and as the host and leader of the event, create an environment where other women naturally perceive you as desirable.

Now, if you struggle with social anxiety or you're very introverted, focus on addressing that first. Once you're more socially comfortable, work on creating a large, vibrant social circle and positioning yourself as a high-status individual. It also helps if she sees you surrounded by other high-status people.

I know Leo's advice is to go out every week and approach thousands of women over the course of two years. Personally, I don’t recommend that route, because most men can't handle the emotional toll that comes with constant rejection. Besides, high-quality women usually require significantly more value from you compared to average women. That’s why I believe building a strong social circle and focusing on status is the best way to be successful in dating as a guy.

What's the best strategy when you exchange the goal of "sleep with high quality women on regular basis" with "being happy, maximizing your personal understanding of love"? 

[Joshe]

On 7/8/2025 at 3:54 AM, theleelajoker said:

And the this stuff about the 10s and "most attractive women". The most beautiful woman I dated drove me crazy because we were not compatible long run.

Most men seem so fucking determined on finding the outward "hottest" girl instead of the one that makes both partner feel good. And then get frustrated when they don't get what they should not want in the first place lol

Agreed. It’s like wanting a Lamborghini because of how special it can make you feel via status signaling, irrespective of its functional impact on you. And they would just say “There’s nothing wrong with being a lover of beautiful cars. Some men just have higher standards than others and want to be up close and personal to beautiful configurations of fiberglass and metal. Not all men are satisfied with run of the mill sedans”.

And of course they think lambo seeking is a higher form of existence, placing them atop the mental hierarchy of men. Completely wrapped up in ego. 

IMO, if you refuse to or can’t be content with an average looking girl, there’s very likely some pathology to explore or trauma to resolve. 

Edited July 9 by Joshe

[StaraX]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

What's the best strategy when you exchange the goal of "sleep with high quality women on regular basis" with "being happy, maximizing your personal understanding of love"? 

Being pragmatic is all about identifying the desired outcome and then implementing the most effective strategies and principles to achieve it. Happiness is a feeling that includes many components. But one thing is certain: if a man is unable to get laid for several years, happiness becomes nearly impossible. Obviously, one cannot be happy if their basic needs are not met. 

As for love, a woman will not love you until you have sex with her. From my point of view, the biggest struggle for most guys is not the maintenance phase aka maintaining the relationship. The biggest struggle is the attraction phase. 

[StaraX]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

Agreed. It’s like wanting a Lamborghini because of how special it can make you feel via status signaling, irrespective of its functional impact on you. And they would just say “There’s nothing wrong with being a lover of beautiful cars. Some men just have higher standards than others and want to be up close and personal to beautiful configurations of fiberglass and metal. Not all men are satisfied with run of the mill sedans”.

And of course they think lambo seeking is a higher form of existence, placing them atop the mental hierarchy of men. Completely wrapped up in ego. 

IMO, if you refuse to or can’t be content with an average looking girl, there’s very likely some pathology to explore or trauma to resolve. 

It's not exactly like that. First of all, most men don't aim for 10s, as they are extremely rare and require so much value from a man. I think most guys would be more than happy with 8s. But even women who are 8s still require a lot of value from a man. I wouldn't compare mating and reproduction to wanting a Lamborghini because the latter doesn't even come close when it comes to the hierarchy of needs.

[Joshe]

47 minutes ago, StaraX said:

It's not exactly like that. First of all, most men don't aim for 10s, as they are extremely rare and require so much value from a man. I think most guys would be more than happy with 8s. But even women who are 8s still require a lot of value from a man. I wouldn't compare mating and reproduction to wanting a Lamborghini because the latter doesn't even come close when it comes to the hierarchy of needs.

I agree that most men would be happiest with an 8, but every man going after an 8 is untenable as 79% of men are themselves not an 8. 

Of course the analogy breaks down at some point but the main idea is the ego is usually the driver in "needing" the absolute best. The base needs could easily be met with an average looking chick, the same way that a typical sedan covers the need to get from A to B.

99.999% of the time, it's the ego that wants a Lambo, and when someone who wants a Lambo hears this, they rationalize their desire by saying things like "I just admire beauty and cool stuff" or something like that. 

What does the ego get? High-status, a feeling of superiority, a boost to identity, a story to tell. It’s not about the need for transportation, it’s about transformation. The ego wants to arrive envied, admired, and validated. Just like the guy who insists he can only feel fulfilled with 9s and 10s, what he’s really chasing is confirmation that he’s valuable, worthy, powerful. 

It's easy to confuse validation with fulfillment. Ego hijacks primal needs, chasing beauty, success, admiration, under the illusion of “standards” and "needs". Many aspirations are not rooted in genuine need or deep appreciation, but a quest for status and self-worth.

Edited July 9 by Joshe

[aurum]

Someone is going to date the 9s and 10s.

If you're a guy who is very attractive or otherwise brings a lot of value, dating less than what you're worth becomes untenable.

It'd be like having a PhD and then going to work the cash register at McDonalds. You won't even get hired for being overqualified. It has to be a match.

People end up dating someone who is roughly equivalent in value to them and who is convenient. Almost everything else is noise.

Edited July 9 by aurum

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, Joshe said:

Agreed. It’s like wanting a Lamborghini because of how special it can make you feel via status signaling, irrespective of its functional impact on you. And they would just say “There’s nothing wrong with being a lover of beautiful cars. Some men just have higher standards than others and want to be up close and personal to beautiful configurations of fiberglass and metal. Not all men are satisfied with run of the mill sedans”.

And of course they think lambo seeking is a higher form of existence, placing them atop the mental hierarchy of men. Completely wrapped up in ego. 

IMO, if you refuse to or can’t be content with an average looking girl, there’s very likely some pathology to explore or trauma to resolve. 

Yes I think that at times, I have been in this trap myself. Not sure I am completely out of it, tbh. 

Of course I liked the girls I dated very much, there was alignment in values, communication etc. And I dated women that my friends did not consider as hot, but I found them hot and did not care about others opinion. 

But I also know that at other times,  part of me was generating self value through me having a very hot gf and thus getting status through it from others. I remember this feeling very clearly.  It's all a learning process...

3 hours ago, StaraX said:

Being pragmatic is all about identifying the desired outcome and then implementing the most effective strategies and principles to achieve it. Happiness is a feeling that includes many components. But one thing is certain: if a man is unable to get laid for several years, happiness becomes nearly impossible. Obviously, one cannot be happy if their basic needs are not met. 

As for love, a woman will not love you until you have sex with her. From my point of view, the biggest struggle for most guys is not the maintenance phase aka maintaining the relationship. The biggest struggle is the attraction phase. 

If you don't get laid for several years, maybe you should start to change your approach towards women.

Getting to know women I struggled with when I was younger, now it happens very smoothly.  It's really just about being open and interested in them as human beings + listening to what I need right now, being in touch with myself and my body + being authentic and not giving a **** what others think. 

I'm one those struggling with the maintenance  

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Someone is going to date the 9s and 10s.

If you're a guy who is very attractive or otherwise brings a lot of value, dating less than what you're worth becomes untenable.

It'd be like having a PhD and then going to work the cash register at McDonalds. You won't even get hired for being overqualified. It has to be a match.

People end up dating someone who is roughly equivalent in value to them and who is convenient. Almost everything else is noise.

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. 

What is the rating mechanism? Looks? Sure, you need sexual attraction, but this only partially based on looks, it's a lot about the connection and subtle things like smell. 

Is it also material stuff, status? Well, good luck cuddling status. It will surely keep you warm at night. And the big villa feels pretty empty when there is no one that understands you.

Is it personality? Then it becomes impossible to rate, because it's subjective and everybody needs different personality as an individual match. 

OK and even IF you put some rating on personality, it's not a fixed thing. People change, yourself change. Moreover, people are who they are also because the way you relate to them, the way you see them and behave towards according to this. 

Edited July 9 by theleelajoker

[Schizophonia]

14 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

 

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. 

 

That's why I stick to affectionate names like "elephant seal," "barrels," and "giraffe" when referring to people with low attractiveness.
Much more humane

[Natasha Tori Maru]

38 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. 

Social media and group think. It's just people subscribing to some system. 

1) It's a value system, the hilarious part is everyone values things differently. So 1-10 scales aren't even comparable between people. 🙃

2) External beauty is subjective. 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' cliche

3) Its more junk and concepts to feed thought and mind, taking them the opposite direction of consciousness.

4) If they dedicated the same serious amount of time contemplating existential matters as arbitrary sexual objective rating scales, it probably would have been discarded. 

I suppose it works for those that use it. 

But imo, it's just more junk thoughts you don't need in your head, that are going to rob you of BEING in the moment. Stealing your own presence and attractiveness to those around you.

 

Edited July 9 by Natasha Tori Maru
Words r hard pre coffee, brain stuck on the POST screen

[aurum]

56 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. 

What is the rating mechanism? Looks? Sure, you need sexual attraction, but this only partially based on looks, it's a lot about the connection and subtle things like smell. 

Is it also material stuff, status? Well, good luck cuddling status. It will surely keep you warm at night. And the big villa feels pretty empty when there is no one that understands you.

Is it personality? Then it becomes impossible to rate, because it's subjective and everybody needs different personality as an individual match. 

OK and even IF you put some rating on personality, it's not a fixed thing. People change, yourself change. Moreover, people are who they are also because the way you relate to them, the way you see them and behave towards according to this. 

Yes, attraction has a relative component. But it's not that hard to find general trends of what is attractive.

You're relativizing attraction way too much.

[Joshe]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Someone is going to date the 9s and 10s.

If you're a guy who is very attractive or otherwise brings a lot of value, dating less than what you're worth becomes untenable.

It'd be like having a PhD and then going to work the cash register at McDonalds. You won't even get hired for being overqualified. It has to be a match.

People end up dating someone who is roughly equivalent in value to them and who is convenient. Almost everything else is noise.

Well yeah, but none of this is a problem for these guys, and of course they're the exception to most of what I've been saying.

For everyone else, I believe people should be content getting in where they fit in and just letting that be that. If you wind up punching above your weight, great. Punching down, no problem if it makes you happy. But if you're a 6, sure, you can aim for a 10, but don't have it as some unrealistic standard or grand prize that you constantly chase. My claim is this is pathological/unhealthy.

It just seems immature/unhealthy that grown men would take such a pursuit seriously. These pickup guys suggest investing thousands of hours into honing these skills. This is an absurd waste of time and life. And all in the name of "appreciating beauty". I don't buy it. Even if I did, I would hard disagree on this as a way of life or serious hobby. Seems hedonistic and weak, like you got your priorities all messed up.

Edited July 9 by Joshe

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid. It's a mindfuck and I don't get how this BS came into western culture. 

We all know what an ugly person is and what a beautiful person is from our culture's perspective. It's possible for us as individuals to find something ugly or beautiful that is in disagreement with our culture's perspective, but this doesn't negate the culture's perspective. This is the basis of the scale. Whether it goes spoken or unspoken, it does exist. But I agree, it's not a very useful scale, although we're getting some use out of it now. lol. 

Edited July 9 by Joshe

[theleelajoker]

28 minutes ago, Joshe said:

We all know what an ugly person is and what a beautiful person is from our culture's perspective. It's possible for us as individuals to find something ugly or beautiful that is in disagreement with our culture's perspective, but this doesn't negate the culture's perspective. This is the basis of the scale. Whether it goes spoken or unspoken, it does exist.

Yeah I guess there are several points to it 

1. It's a bit similar to money. We all believe that this piece of paper has this and this value,but it's artificial. So Hollywood and brands tell us what's "hot" and we believe that 
2. Even if you have a cultural perspective - agreeing with you on that - it seems we tend to forget that the perspective is not absolute. What's the ideal of beautiful changed over time a lot 
3. It doesn't seem healthy the way it's seen now in our culture, does it? Actually seems really fucked up to me given all that manipulative pick up stuff, frustration across both men and woman and unhappy stories about dating and relationship.

Edited July 9 by theleelajoker

[Joshe]

6 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

It doesn't seem healthy the way it's seen now in our culture, does it? Actually seems really fucked up to me given all that manipulative pick up stuff, frustration across both men and woman and unhappy stories about dating and relationship.

Yes, but I'm not sure how it could be any other way really. We see things as more or less this or that. I have a cute dog, he's not an ugly dog. He's like a 9. lol 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

Well yeah, but none of this is a problem for these guys, and of course they're the exception to most of what I've been saying.

For everyone else, I believe people should be content getting in where they fit in and just letting that be that. If you wind up punching above your weight, great. Punching down, no problem if it makes you happy. But if you're a 6, sure, you can aim for a 10, but don't have it as some unrealistic standard or grand prize that you constantly chase. My claim is this is pathological/unhealthy.

It just seems immature/unhealthy that grown men would take such a pursuit seriously. These pickup guys suggest investing thousands of hours into honing these skills. This is an absurd waste of time and life. And all in the name of "appreciating beauty". I don't buy it. Even if I did, I would hard disagree on this as a way of life or serious hobby. Seems hedonistic and weak, like you got your priorities all messed up.

Along those same lines, I tend to give the advice to women, "Sort men from consideration who can't appreciate your beauty."

And for men who are like, "I'm only into 10s", it's a tell that he can't appreciate most women's beauty. And sex will just feel awkward with him because you'll feel his disappointment in you. He'll always be looking to leave you for someone better.

That's why most women don't like to date men who are perfect 10s because the guy will only find beautiful a woman who's as attractive as him.

But add to that, a guy who is a 4 or a 5 who says "I only date 10s"... and you have that same unsatisfying dynamic... plus he doesn't have the attractiveness either.

[RendHeaven]

11 hours ago, Joshe said:

Agreed. It’s like wanting a Lamborghini because of how special it can make you feel via status signaling, irrespective of its functional impact on you. And they would just say “There’s nothing wrong with being a lover of beautiful cars. Some men just have higher standards than others and want to be up close and personal to beautiful configurations of fiberglass and metal. Not all men are satisfied with run of the mill sedans”.

And of course they think lambo seeking is a higher form of existence, placing them atop the mental hierarchy of men. Completely wrapped up in ego. 

8 hours ago, Joshe said:

99.999% of the time, it's the ego that wants a Lambo, and when someone who wants a Lambo hears this, they rationalize their desire by saying things like "I just admire beauty and cool stuff" or something like that. 

 

@Joshe Looks like you have a bone to pick with my good-faith argument from earlier. But instead of addressing it head on, you're subtly badmouthing it by addressing other people who already agree with you, and framing my stance as "they would say" while straw manning me and feeling like you've won.

What you're not allowing yourself to see is that a genuine lover of beautiful women will always elect to be with a beautiful woman irrespective of "status signalling" and "ego." I, for example, will always prefer a beautiful woman, even if we were to be the last two humans on earth and I had nobody left to "show her off" to. Furthermore, I would choose a beautiful woman without hesitation even if the cultural norms happened to punish that.

I remember as a three year old, I was already distinguishing pretty faces VS mediocre forgettable faces. I was already forming crushes on my nursery school teachers, classmates, and random TV show characters. Nobody taught me to hyperfixate on pretty people. It was an authentic original impulse which, for the record, actually got punished by age eight, as all the kids in my class began teasing and taunting me for clearly being interested in Olivia (always staring at her, always trying to sit next to her and strike up conversation).

I learned really fast that I'm not allowed to like girls if I wanted the acceptance of my classmates. For almost the next 15 years, I tried acting like girls (and especially looks) are not a big deal and totally negligible - all the while feeling torn up inside at my own lack of integrity (classic shadow repression)

It's not a matter of "higher existence." It's simply a matter of being honest about what I like.

Let me put it to you simply. If you took 3 year old me, and gave me the option of madison beer VS bella ramsey, I would have picked madison beer in a millisecond flat without regards to how I'm being perceived by others. Furthermore, I would not even be thinking about what I would DO with madison beer, and I wouldn't have even know I had a penis and that she had a vagina. I would have just wanted to be closer to her. And the adult version of me is just an extension of that same seed.

11 hours ago, Joshe said:

IMO, if you refuse to or can’t be content with an average looking girl, there’s very likely some pathology to explore or trauma to resolve. 

Speak for yourself. We clearly value aesthetics different.

How convenient that someone who has different values than you is defacto pathological and trauma-bound.

8 hours ago, Joshe said:

What does the ego get? High-status, a feeling of superiority, a boost to identity, a story to tell. It’s not about the need for transportation, it’s about transformation. The ego wants to arrive envied, admired, and validated. Just like the guy who insists he can only feel fulfilled with 9s and 10s, what he’s really chasing is confirmation that he’s valuable, worthy, powerful. 

It's easy to confuse validation with fulfillment. Ego hijacks primal needs, chasing beauty, success, admiration, under the illusion of “standards” and "needs". Many aspirations are not rooted in genuine need or deep appreciation, but a quest for status and self-worth.

To be generous towards you, I completely see your point and indeed you describe the condition of many modern men.

Just be careful painting with broad brushes. You risk collapsing aesthetic value into mere power dispute. You can be drawn to beauty for the social implications, or you can be drawn to beauty for its own sake. For most guys, it's likely a dual incentive. When you claim that 99.999% of men who want madison beer are ego driven, you're being willingly neglectful of the fact that she's actually just pretty as fuck and most guys are drawn to pretty women.

Your tone throughout this thread borders on shaming a natural impulse. Your stance is that you literally cannot pursue a beautiful woman without somehow being broken. Maybe that's been your personal experience, but for you to make a universal claim out of that takes a whole lot of projection and moralization.

On 7/8/2025 at 4:54 PM, theleelajoker said:

Most men seem so fucking determined on finding the outward "hottest" girl instead of the one that makes both partner feel good. And then get frustrated when they don't get what they should not want in the first place lol

@theleelajoker Not mutually exclusive

6 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Just the simple idea of rating 7,8,9, 10 and value is so stupid.

It makes perfect sense. Obviously looks are subjective, but everybody has a personalized aesthetic ideal in their head which is their benchmark of "10." If you genuinely can't think of a "personalized aesthetic ideal," then just recall the most aesthetic face + body combo you've ever been attracted to, and call that your 10 for now.

From there, every deviation away from that ideal knocks off points. Not in the sense that they become a lesser person, but just that you're measuring their aesthetic "distance" from your ultimate preference. This is purely aesthetic. If you don't value looks, then you will find this whole endeavor stupid and wasteful and even insulting. And you're right - you can't measure the sum total of a person's attractiveness because it IS more than looks. But if you do value aesthetics, then this will just be a simple pragmatic tool, like a ruler. The ruler never promised to weigh you in pounds. The ruler just reports one metric.

From there, we can cross reference every individual's subjective scale to get an average "global scale" which will be at least somewhat representative of every individual's personal scale, because it turns out that many of our aesthetic biases overlap (like proportionality, symmetry, sexual dimorphism, general health and fertility, etc.)

If we do this right, we will notice that overt qualities like race or height or hair color or body type (ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph, etc) barely matter. Also absolute size of bust or hips is also irrelevant. What actually matters is their ratio against the waist. i.e. what actually matters is the relation of shapes and sizes on the face and body relative to other shapes and sizes on the same body. The overwhelming majority of us are drawn to balanced faces and bodies.

Not all of us, but most of us.

[aurum]

5 hours ago, Joshe said:

Well yeah, but none of this is a problem for these guys, and of course they're the exception to most of what I've been saying.

For everyone else, I believe people should be content getting in where they fit in and just letting that be that. If you wind up punching above your weight, great. Punching down, no problem if it makes you happy. But if you're a 6, sure, you can aim for a 10, but don't have it as some unrealistic standard or grand prize that you constantly chase. My claim is this is pathological/unhealthy.

It just seems immature/unhealthy that grown men would take such a pursuit seriously. These pickup guys suggest investing thousands of hours into honing these skills. This is an absurd waste of time and life. And all in the name of "appreciating beauty". I don't buy it. Even if I did, I would hard disagree on this as a way of life or serious hobby. Seems hedonistic and weak, like you got your priorities all messed up.

Yes, pickup can become an endless chase which becomes toxic and immature. 

But the reality is that most guys have no choice but to be somewhat content where they fit in. Contentment is forced upon them by the lack of their own ability and effort, not because they're more healthy.

If you're a 6 aiming for a 10, their motivations are likely mixed. There will be some lower motivations, but also potentially some higher motivations. You can use the pursuit of women to grow yourself as a man because your attractiveness is highly dependent on self-investment. There are many valid lessons and growth opportunities you can gain from doing so.

Ideally, you will also end up contributing a lot more survival value to society. The reason many guys have such poor results with women is that they contribute so little value to society. Which is also partially why they're broke. 

I'm way more impressed with a guy who chooses to not sleep with a 10 for higher purposes, than one who is contributes so little value that they couldn't do it if they tried. Most guys have never even met a 10.

Part of the point of this forum is to talk about achieving minority-level results. Less men will ever spiritually awaken than sleep with a 10, but here we are anyway.

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

Along those same lines, I tend to give the advice to women, "Sort men from consideration who can't appreciate your beauty."

And for men who are like, "I'm only into 10s", it's a tell that he can't appreciate most women's beauty. And sex will just feel awkward with him because you'll feel his disappointment in you. He'll always be looking to leave you for someone better.

I agree with that advice.

But also, physical beauty is legitimately rare.

If it wasn't rare, it wouldn't be valuable.

Edited July 10 by aurum