What can we actually do?

[Apparition of Jack]

I’m burnt out, man. The Republicans just passed their big bullshit bill that will almost certainly get hundreds of thousands, if not more, Americans killed, and we seem helpless to stop it.

The No Kings protests were good but they didn’t result in any material change. Trump’s brand of late-stage fascism seems to just be undefeatable. Mamdani winning was a good sign but he’s just the mayor of one city. 
 

It’s like no matter how much we protest, how much we fight, no matter how many important victories we take, Trump will just ruin the lives of millions of people no matter what. I’m fucking sick of this shit but the American political machine seems like an evil beast you can’t destroy. 
 

I’m so fucking tired. I want this madness to end, but it seems unstoppable. Genuinely don’t know what to do.

Edited July 2 by Apparition of Jack

[Rafael Thundercat]

1 minute ago, Apparition of Jack said:

I’m burnt out, man. The Republicans just passed their big bullshit bill that will almost certainly get thousands, if not more, Americans killed, and we seem helpless to stop it.

The No Kings protests were good but they didn’t result in any material change. Trump’s brand of late-stage fascism seems to just be undefeatable. Mamdani winning was a good sign but he’s just the mayor of one city. 
 

It’s like no matter how much we protest, how much we fight, no matter how many important victories we take, Trump will just ruin the lives of millions of people no matter what. I’m fucking sick of this shit but the American political machine seems like an evil beast you can’t destroy. 
 

I’m so fucking tired. I want this madness to end, but it seems unstoppable. Genuinely don’t know what to do.

Go out, smell the fragance of the flowers, touch grass, drink water, dance with the wind and be still and know. 

[Lyubov]

I see things in the same way often. I think you have to keep a bigger perspective. What you said is accurate, at the same time see the bigger picture and don’t disconnect from within. This too shall pass. I think things won’t get much better until consequences are felt from electing these people. The entire population has to wisen up and mature and that can indeed happen but it takes time after learning some hard lessons. Elections have consequences. We may have to sit with this for many years to come.

[hoodrow trillson]

Sleep well knowing that eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way just as hard as it’s swinging through us right now.  

The chickens will come home to roost with these people and it won’t be pretty.  
 

 

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

and be still and know. 

Yeah, that's the problem Be still and know that I am the knowing energy that fears the unknown and needs to do something about it as in OP's position. Energy running out of fuel and getting tired, but asks what to do and you say be still and know, know what, that it's dying and looking for fuel.

[Rafael Thundercat]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yeah, that's the problem Be still and know that I am the knowing energy that fears the unknown and needs to do something about it as in OP's position. Energy running out of fuel and getting tired, but asks what to do and you say be still and know, know what, that it's dying and looking for fuel.

I was being NewAge on purpose or in other words, mocking the neutrality of most newage people who are floating in the clouds of Now and forgeting that there are systems to dismantle in our world. Check Deana she is trying to shake things up...

https://www.threads.net/@patriciadeanna

There are a lot of people in the Resistence force. 

Edited July 2 by Rafael Thundercat

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I was being NewAge on purpose or in other words, mocking the neutrality of most newage people who are floating in the clouds of Now and forgeting that there are systems to dismantle in our world. Check Deana she is trying to shake things up...

https://www.threads.net/@patriciadeanna

There are a lot of people in the Resistence force. 

ok, I will.

[Lyubov]

Read the book “nonviolent communication.” Or check out the YouTube channel “Wu Wei Wisodm.” Both are very helpful spiritual based resources for living through challenges. 

Remember that all of Trump’s actions basically culminate in his own belief system about being inadequate in the eyes of his father and family. And with that belief he can tap into other’s fears because they hold similar beliefs of inadequacy and being in danger. 

This play by the super rich is their belief system of being afraid of being in danger or overthrown or losing some sort of power. That’s why they go after leftist mayor candidates in NYC like they want to kill it in the crib. Equality is deeply threatening to them because they believe they need power and control to be safe. 

Edited July 2 by Lyubov

[trenton]

I believe America's course is set for its fall from global dominance and there is nothing we can do to change it. The protests are well meaning, but the wealthy have too much power and they will not allow for any reform of our government. The entire system is itself the corruption because it is a corporate wealth extraction apparatus. So long as any governmental system is constrained by the demands of the wealthy elite, the system becomes inflexible and therefore must collapse. This pattern of Empire collapse is consistent throughout history. The United States has been strategically outplayed by her rivals because she has been provoked into unsustainable military and debt spending which finance unwinnable wars against terror such as the war in Afghanistan. China already knows these contradictions within the American system and is positioning itself to become the next global hegemon.

There is nothing we can do to salvage this situation because both parties are captured by wealthy elites and will never bring about the change we need. The viable third party is not coming and the wealthy will continue to extract whatever they can from this dying empire before they flee to other countries to start the process all over again. America is becoming increasingly desperate with its military spending, but this is only digging our own graves. I believe America is unstable due to its geopolitical defeat and I am considering leaving. The Trump administration is only accelerating America's descent into self-destruction by alienating us from our allies. The European Union sense that America is increasingly unstable, and they are distancing themselves from us through the Euro, giving them an alternative to the unstable petrodollar as they seek new trade relations with China instead. Trump's "America First" approach might be the final nail in the coffin for America. No Democrat will be able to undo the damage he is causing, and said Democrats are being controlled by wealthy elites anyway.

America is not as stable, wealthy, and powerful as it wants you to believe. Don't fall for the propaganda, and don't pretend that our political polarization and the rise of violence is normal. This is denial about the American system becoming untenable due to its enormous corruption at the hands of the wealthy elite who effectively have far more power than the President. The President is a mere figure head, and defeating Trump will not salvage America even if we could. Our course is set for destruction, and I see no realistic way to turn America around or change course. America is in denial of its decline as the global hegemon.

[DocWatts]

7 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

I’m burnt out, man. The Republicans just passed their big bullshit bill that will almost certainly get hundreds of thousands, if not more, Americans killed, and we seem helpless to stop it.

The No Kings protests were good but they didn’t result in any material change. Trump’s brand of late-stage fascism seems to just be undefeatable. Mamdani winning was a good sign but he’s just the mayor of one city. 

It’s like no matter how much we protest, how much we fight, no matter how many important victories we take, Trump will just ruin the lives of millions of people no matter what. I’m fucking sick of this shit but the American political machine seems like an evil beast you can’t destroy. 

I’m so fucking tired. I want this madness to end, but it seems unstoppable. Genuinely don’t know what to do.

Totally understandable. Don't hesitate to take a break if you need to. Spend time with friends, read a book, meditate, touch grass - do whatever you need to do to fill yourself up. Don't let this regime rob you of joy - secure your own oxygen mask before you attend to others.

The civil rights movement, women's suffrage, the struggle to end Apartheid - these things took years. None of us were expecting this regime to fall because of one protest - it's going to take a massive sustained effort from millions of us to restore democracy.

As individuals we can't do much against a fascist regime. When we come together as networks of communities pursuing a broad strategy, we can accomplish a lot - but make no mistake, we're going to be spending years of our lives pushing back against this.

What we're doing right now is holding the line and building a sustained civil resistance movement. Americans haven't had to fight for our democracy in a long time. How do you think individuals from previous generations who believed in democracy felt six months into the Civil War or World War 2? That's the sort of mindset we need to have - one of resiliency, solidarity, and mutual support.

Edited July 2 by DocWatts

[Rafael Thundercat]

2 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

What we're doing right now is holding the line and building a sustained civil resistance movement. We haven't had to fight for our democracy in a long time. How do you think individuals from previous generations who believed in democracy felt six months into the Civil War or World War 2? That's the sort of mindset we need to have - one of resiliency, solidarity, and mutual support.

True. Think about about indigenous resistance, Jim Crow, the Trail of Tears.. all the books writen about resistance against oppression, the war againt stupidity.. is not over.. we just dont have all history in mind every minute. But if we could see all in fast movement, the last 5.000 years were a lot of bloodshead, if not maybe later than 5.000. Some pockets of peace here and there but a lot of tragedy mixed with joy and pleasure of course, otherwise we would not be so many, billions of orgasms. Of course not all babies are born of a pleasureable orgasm experience but giving birth is for sure universe orgasming live into itself. 

[trenton]

@DocWatts Hey, I know that you seem to be well educated on political matters and you have shown sophisticated analysis as you applied systems thinking. Despite my fears and my relative certainty in America's doom, you seem to believe that there is still hope for change. Why do you believe there is hope?

Furthermore, you mention that we may be struggling for years as we fight for Democracy. First of all from my point of view, Democracy is largely propaganda in America as the wealthy elites effectively own either major political party, reducing the possibility of defeating Fascism at the ballot box. What exactly are we fighting for when we say "Democracy" when our current Democracy is essentially a wealth extraction system?

My main fear is that there may not be enough time to fight for reforming this broken system. How long do you think we have before America falls apart due to unsustainable levels of debt and the over extension of the military? By some estimates, America could become much more unstable over the course of the next ten years. These estimations come from Peter Turchin, who predicted a spike in unrest around 2020 and Ray Dalio argues that we are in Stage 5 of his model out of Stage 6, leaving Civil War as a real possibility, though it seems unimaginable. Do you think there is any legitimacy to these predictions of American collapse from both within and on the world stage as a massive economic crisis from the ballooning debt remains a potential catalyst?

How long do we have to reform this system despite the extreme and effective resistance from the wealthy elites and the polarized nature of the left right wing which prevents effective unity and governance?

[Joshe]

You ever heard the phrase "You can't fix stupid"? Well, it's true, and there's more of them than there are of you. It has to fix itself by getting burnt for it's mistakes and coming to a better conclusion on its own.

The best way to speed this up is to stop providing opportunity for stupid to double down and stop providing it with fresh outlets for its expression. In other words, there should be no trying to change stupid's mind. There should be no visible, hostile antagonist to stupid. 

This particular breed of stupid thrives on attention and identity building. If it were starved of attention in the political realm, it would find other things besides politics to focus on. 

In an ideal world, the left would wise up and realize this and work quietly in the shadows, but this is a fantasy. As such, there will be ideological wars and wars of identity, and as long as there are elites to exploit this, it means stupid wins more often than it should because it has numbers, momentum, and is easily exploited.

So what do you do? I see no other way to beat stupid than to starve it out. Provide it no sustenance and no opportunity to gain ground. Bad systems collapse when they stop being rewarded.

Here's what that would look like, per ChatGPT:

Dont:

• Don’t expect widespread top-down change from reasoned argument or moral appeals.
• Don’t waste energy on ideological theater. Debates on social media aren’t the battleground that matters.
• Don’t flaunt your ideals like a badge or shove them into every conversation.
• Don’t try to convert everyone. Most people aren't open to new ideas until they feel the pain of their current one.
• Don’t rush to rescue when the consequences finally land.
• Don’t keep trying to prevent the fall—sometimes collapse is the lesson.
• Don’t confuse visibility with effectiveness.
• Don’t make your stand all about signaling virtue or intelligence.

Do:

• Think “build a parallel operating system,” not “win an argument.”
• Refuse to be their enemy. That denies them a narrative to rally around.
• Starve them of attention. Let stupid scream into a void.
• Influence through example: Be effective, competent, grounded. Let the contrast speak for itself.
• Move resources behind the scenes: fund smart people, support well-designed platforms, build tools that scale truth quietly.
• Build real alternatives: community organizations, independent media, local power structures, education platforms.
• Create safety nets for the aftermath, not the prevention. You’re not trying to stop the pain—they need the burn to learn.
• Prepare to step in when stupid breaks its leg—not to say “I told you so,” but to lead better by example.
• Act on values, not applause.
• Say less, build more. Quiet confidence is harder to provoke—and harder to stop.

"You don’t beat stupid by engaging it. You beat it by ignoring it, outlasting it, and building something it can’t reach.
That’s the real revolution. It happens out of sight—and hits all at once when stupid finally runs out of road."

I've seen this in my own life. I tried for many years to beat the stupid out of several people and it never works. They only start to catch on when you stop being antagonistic to their stupidity. It seems to take about 2-5 years before they start to come around. lol, but that's only if there is no antagonism.

They will know there's unspoken antagonism, but that's actually an invisible whip that serves to bring them around sooner or later. It's actually a huge catalyst for their maturation. Quiet, subtle disapproval is surprisingly effective, but it requires patience. Let them sit with their own mess without giving them a scapegoat. 

Edited July 3 by Joshe

[digitalkaine]

Honestly bro just don’t stop consuming and distracting yourself. And have an emotional response to everything. 
 

and porn lots and lots of porn. 
 

I just got into pokemon to get my mind off how sick the world is and the fact that it’s hard for me to game women the way I used to. 

[DocWatts]

13 hours ago, trenton said:

@DocWatts Hey, I know that you seem to be well educated on political matters and you have shown sophisticated analysis as you applied systems thinking. Despite my fears and my relative certainty in America's doom, you seem to believe that there is still hope for change. Why do you believe there is hope?

Furthermore, you mention that we may be struggling for years as we fight for Democracy. First of all from my point of view, Democracy is largely propaganda in America as the wealthy elites effectively own either major political party, reducing the possibility of defeating Fascism at the ballot box. What exactly are we fighting for when we say "Democracy" when our current Democracy is essentially a wealth extraction system?

My main fear is that there may not be enough time to fight for reforming this broken system. How long do you think we have before America falls apart due to unsustainable levels of debt and the over extension of the military? By some estimates, America could become much more unstable over the course of the next ten years. These estimations come from Peter Turchin, who predicted a spike in unrest around 2020 and Ray Dalio argues that we are in Stage 5 of his model out of Stage 6, leaving Civil War as a real possibility, though it seems unimaginable. Do you think there is any legitimacy to these predictions of American collapse from both within and on the world stage as a massive economic crisis from the ballooning debt remains a potential catalyst?

How long do we have to reform this system despite the extreme and effective resistance from the wealthy elites and the polarized nature of the left right wing which prevents effective unity and governance?

The only way that any of this becomes a foregone conclusion is if we stop fighting.

Between an America that lives up to its professed ideals and a full-on fascist dystopia is a huge spectrum of in-between outcomes that will be determined in large part by the consequential everyday decisions of millions of ordinary people.

When you catastrophize a worst-case scenario all you're doing is giving the American fascist movement more power than it actually has. Trump and the billionaire backers behind this auto-coup would like nothing more than for us to despair that their rule is inevitable. Yet in reality Trump's regime is historically weak and unpopular. Six months in, when DJT should be at the height of his popularity, he's underwater on literally every issue, his approval rating is hovering in the upper 30s, and he's struggling to get a budget passed.

Millions of people taking to the streets in defiance of this regime at this early stage accomplishes two important things. 1) it shatters the Big Lie that Trump has a mandate from the American people, and that his uncontested Rule is inevitable. His regime has already backtracked on a number of issues (such as the tariffs) and war with Canada due to massive pushback from diverse segments of society. 2) It works the muscles that will be needed to sustain a demographically and ideologically diverse civil resistance movement.

As to your question, do wealthy elites have an enormous amount of influence over our elections and institutions? No one who is fighting this regime disputes that - lobbying is effectively a form of legalized bribery, and things have gotten as bad as they have in large part due to a series of disastrous SCOTUS decisions that gave corporations the same legal rights as people. But let's not equivocate - Americans weren't being sent to concentration camps six months or six years ago. Even accepting that pre-Trump America was a highly flawed democracy, we weren't living through this. Elections and civic participation, even a HIGHLY flawed system, matters.

If a civil war is coming, then we need to be building those networks of mutual support and solidarity RIGHT NOW - not 5 or 10 years in the future when the bottom is falling out. Americas has had a civil war, and the net result was to end slavery and be the eventual catalyst for a multiracial democracy.

Fascist regimes tend to be unstable because they're epistemically closed - their whole worldview is essentially a Reality-denial ploy. This may be an effective way to run a Cult, but it's not a sustainable way to run a country. Even autocracies ultimately depend upon the consent of its civilian population to stay in power - a government that only delivers the goods to %0.1 of the population is self-undermining. 

The American fascist movement spent half a century quietly building its power on school boards, in local elections, and in the media before it burst into the open in 2016. It would be the height of arrogance to think that we're going to overturn that in one election or one protest - yet it would be folly to conclude just six months that the resistance is doomed and efforts to push back against this vile regime are in vain. The civil rights movement put in more than a decade of disciplined work before Jim Crow finally crumbled. Defeating the Confederacy and ending slavery took years of protracted effort and struggle.

We need to have the same mindset as an American GI landing on the beaches of Normandy - we're in this together for the long haul, whatever it takes for however long as it takes.

Edited July 3 by DocWatts