Does America not understand it has nukes?

[Apparition of Jack]

Why are Americans so paranoid? Their nuclear arsenal alone makes them basically untouchable; the two giant oceans on either side made them impenetrable. 
 

Why do Americans act like middle powers like Iran or NK are a threat to them? America’s nuclear arsenal could wipe out every country on earth 20 times over. 
 

The only other country with a comparable nuclear arsenal (on paper) is Russia, but 90% of their bombs are decaying Soviet relics anyway. 
 

America reigns supreme in the military world for this one fact alone. Why do they still act like a bunch of woodland rebels? 

[GroovyGuru]

The average American feels threatened by the middle powers you mentioned having nuclear weapons because they are stupid, ignorant, and uninformed. They think that because that is the slop they've been fed by the media they consume. 

Now as for people in government, policy makers, lobbyists, propagandists, people in media, and anyone else who is fear mongering about Iran actually using nukes against the US, they are well aware this is a load of shit. They just rely on the "Iran having nuclear weapons is a threat to civilization" angle to sell regime change to the public. At the end of the day, an Iran with nukes is a threat to Israel and the US not in the sense that they would actually use them, but because it will make things harder for those countries to dominate the region and realize their long-term strategic ambitions.

[Breakingthewall]

The wars in which the US is involved are not due to threats but to business. But they can't say that to the public, then they always make some credible history. 

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Why are Americans so paranoid? Their nuclear arsenal alone makes them basically untouchable; the two giant oceans on either side made them impenetrable. 
 

Why do Americans act like middle powers like Iran or NK are a threat to them? America’s nuclear arsenal could wipe out every country on earth 20 times over. 
 

The only other country with a comparable nuclear arsenal (on paper) is Russia, but 90% of their bombs are decaying Soviet relics anyway. 
 

America reigns supreme in the military world for this one fact alone. Why do they still act like a bunch of woodland rebels? 

Part of it is what @GroovyGuru just said especially with the rise of the internet, social media, partisan echo chambers, provocative messaging in this day and age being able to influence and amplify people's anger, frustrations, fear, and other negative emotions more than ever before.

It's also because a lot of people are worried about our country possibly getting into another forever war by sending our military troops on the ground like Vietnam or the War on Terror in the Middle East. Not to mention the economic implications that would occur from such a wide regional war in the Middle East. 

[Puer Aeternus]

Actual threat to Merica' (sqwuak):

Iran with nukes 

Iran bombing oil fields in retaliation to U.S. strikes, spiking global oil price, sending a teetering U.S. economy into a recession and further debt which grows more and more tenuous by the day. Further diminishing it's declining global power 

[Hojo]

The country runs off scared pigs. Americans are scared of everything cause they have it super good. If you have alot of really good things you are scared that it will collapse. When everything can collapse it you are scared of everything. 

When the mind is chilling in survival mode you are constantly looking for things that are going to hurt you thats why science is getting into super niche shit. You think Iranians are scaree about microplastics and freaking out? No only 1st world countries are cause they are sitting around in survival mode.

Edited Friday at 08:24 PM by Hojo

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Why are Americans so paranoid? Their nuclear arsenal alone makes them basically untouchable; the two giant oceans on either side made them impenetrable. 
 

Why do Americans act like middle powers like Iran or NK are a threat to them? America’s nuclear arsenal could wipe out every country on earth 20 times over. 
 

The only other country with a comparable nuclear arsenal (on paper) is Russia, but 90% of their bombs are decaying Soviet relics anyway. 
 

America reigns supreme in the military world for this one fact alone. Why do they still act like a bunch of woodland rebels? 

I don't know what book I'd recommend to you, but there seems to be a basic lack of grasping what geopolitics even is.

 

The reason why the US and basically all golf states oppose Iranian nuclear weapons is because it would lead to them becoming basically immune to military opposition, in a similar fashion as Russia currently is. If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia will want to have nuclear weapons too, and soon you will have all Golf nations wanting their own nukes to defend themselves from Iranian aggression.

 

The reason why america is invested into the middle east has wider geopolitical reasons, which are important not because of direct security risks, but broader strategic reasons that extend to their global power projection. If you think these reasons are not sufficient, then you simply do not understand geopolitics and should get find some 101 on how state actors behave and why.

 

Making empty moral appeals to hypocrisy is meaningless in geopolitics.

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, Scholar said:

I don't know what book I'd recommend to you, but there seems to be a basic lack of grasping what geopolitics even is.

 

The reason why the US and basically all golf states oppose Iranian nuclear weapons is because it would lead to them becoming basically immune to military opposition, in a similar fashion as Russia currently is. If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia will want to have nuclear weapons too, and soon you will have all Golf nations wanting their own nukes to defend themselves from Iranian aggression.

 

The reason why america is invested into the middle east has wider geopolitical reasons, which are important not because of direct security risks, but broader strategic reasons that extend to their global power projection. If you think these reasons are not sufficient, then you simply do not understand geopolitics and should get find some 101 on how state actors behave and why.

 

Making empty moral appeals to hypocrisy is meaningless in geopolitics.

I’m frankly tired of this line of thinking. We will “geopoliticise” our way into global nuclear Holocaust because of our cynical, zero-sum game theory will eventually “demand” it. How will this benefit “US strategic and military interests?” They’ll be dead too.

I’m really failing to see any ideological, political or even pragmatic reason why we as a species think nuclear proliferation is a good idea. If cynical self-interest is all that exists the world wouldve ended in 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, yet better angels won out. I really struggle to see how generosity, good-faith and reciprocity will never fundamentally be the right thing to do. 

[Basman]

14 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

I really struggle to see how generosity, good-faith and reciprocity will never fundamentally be the right thing to do. 

Consider why cops exist. You'll understand when an axe murderer is your neighbor. 

Now consider that on the global stage that there is no such thing as "cops". There is no greater power that regulates violence between states. Geopolitics is a lawless jungle and the natural condition is a zero-sum game. Tigers don't think twice about chasing of a rival off its territory because that is what they have to do. There are likewise complex but genuine reasons for US involvement in the Middle-East. 

You can only change the geopolitical climate by changing survival incentives. Technology and capitalism has made warmongering largely untenable for example due to its cost and destructive capability. In the past, war was profitable. African kingdoms would declare war just so they could capture slaves to sell and Vikings would pillage the English coast.

[Apparition of Jack]

@Basman Cop’s don’t bomb random suburbs because someone bought a BB gun 

[Basman]

36 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Basman Cop’s don’t bomb random suburbs because someone bought a BB gun 

But they will shoot someone if they are a serious threat. Violence is necessary to a certain degree to maintain stability. 

Moral platitudes will get you no where. You are not even willing to entertain the basics.

[Apparition of Jack]

1 minute ago, Basman said:

But they will shoot someone if they are a serious threat. Violence is necessary to a certain degree to maintain stability. 

Moral platitudes will get you no where. You are not even willing to entertain the basics.

The US raped Iraq for a decade, leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and the rise of ISIS and the European refugee crisis. To this day it’s still not a stable country.

It’s now declaring war in Iran for weapons Iran doesn’t even have, threatening to create a far worse quagmire than Iraq ever was. Millions of people could die from this.

America is a blind, stupid, arrogant dog full of bloodlust and ill-will that cloaks its violence in “prudence” and “strategic thinking.”

America does not bring peace. It brings death and insanity.

It has no room to ever lecture others on geopolitically morality.

[Basman]

8 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

America is a blind, stupid, arrogant dog full of bloodlust and ill-will that cloaks its violence in “prudence” and “strategic thinking.”

America does not bring peace. It brings death and insanity.

This is just not true. America has helped lead the most prosperous and peaceful age in human history. This notion that all it does is destroy is much more descriptive of Russia, who threatens the world with nuclear escalation. But I don't see that energy for Russia. 

Of course America has flaws and cringe moments, and the excesses of unchecked capitalism is becoming increasingly apparent, but this energy just isn't proportional. It's still one of the most moral and constructive societies in human history. The problem is that it just doesn't match up to your high moral standards of one million years into the future. Like, sorry dude.

[Twentyfirst]

51 minutes ago, Basman said:

This is just not true. America has helped lead the most prosperous and peaceful age in human history. This notion that all it does is destroy is much more descriptive of Russia, who threatens the world with nuclear escalation. But I don't see that energy for Russia. 

Of course America has flaws and cringe moments, and the excesses of unchecked capitalism is becoming increasingly apparent, but this energy just isn't proportional. It's still one of the most moral and constructive societies in human history. The problem is that it just doesn't match up to your high moral standards of one million years into the future. Like, sorry dude.

America is just a colonization civilization. The countries were doing better before colonization. If you ask the Native Americans they would tell you they were much better before America. It's easy to lead the world into prosperity when you steal everything from everyone and call it your own and when you stunt others so they don't have a chance to lead the world into prosperity 

America doesn't match up to the moral standards of one thousand years into the past lol. It's a mistake to think that time automatically equals morality. Some countries thousands of years ago were more moral than America today

When you build an empire off of blood and lies it doesn't matter what you do because people will always trace back to that origin story. So even if America changes (which it won't) people will always credit their success as ill gotten. If America wants a good reputation they have to take reputation seriously

Why do you see everybody else in the world as lesser and born somehow as less moral? 

Edited Sunday at 11:07 AM by Twentyfirst

[Apparition of Jack]

2 hours ago, Basman said:

This is just not true. America has helped lead the most prosperous and peaceful age in human history. This notion that all it does is destroy is much more descriptive of Russia, who threatens the world with nuclear escalation. But I don't see that energy for Russia. 

Of course America has flaws and cringe moments, and the excesses of unchecked capitalism is becoming increasingly apparent, but this energy just isn't proportional. It's still one of the most moral and constructive societies in human history. The problem is that it just doesn't match up to your high moral standards of one million years into the future. Like, sorry dude.

America has severe mommy issues.

[Basman]

[Scholar]

On 21/06/2025 at 2:24 AM, Apparition of Jack said:

I’m frankly tired of this line of thinking. We will “geopoliticise” our way into global nuclear Holocaust because of our cynical, zero-sum game theory will eventually “demand” it. How will this benefit “US strategic and military interests?” They’ll be dead too.

I’m really failing to see any ideological, political or even pragmatic reason why we as a species think nuclear proliferation is a good idea. If cynical self-interest is all that exists the world wouldve ended in 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, yet better angels won out. I really struggle to see how generosity, good-faith and reciprocity will never fundamentally be the right thing to do. 

We? You don't get to have any say in this my friend, you're some rando on a rando forum going on moralistic charades incapable of understanding anything about the world.

Ignorance is the reason for why this is happening, you are part of it.

[Inliytened1]

On 6/20/2025 at 7:25 AM, Apparition of Jack said:

Why are Americans so paranoid? Their nuclear arsenal alone makes them basically untouchable; the two giant oceans on either side made them impenetrable. 
 

Why do Americans act like middle powers like Iran or NK are a threat to them? America’s nuclear arsenal could wipe out every country on earth 20 times over. 
 

The only other country with a comparable nuclear arsenal (on paper) is Russia, but 90% of their bombs are decaying Soviet relics anyway. 
 

America reigns supreme in the military world for this one fact alone. Why do they still act like a bunch of woodland rebels? 

A sleeping giant is a dead giant no?

 

Edited Sunday at 03:39 PM by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

you ask the Native Americans they would tell you they were much better before America

Native Americans were constantly trying to exterminate neighboring tribes, often successfully. Those in the south did the same, and if you weren't careful, they'd dig your heart out and eat it.

Before the Americans, Europeans hunted slaves in Africa. Well, more than hunting them, they bought them from Arabs and other tribes, who sold them to their enemies instead of eating them because it was more profitable.

In Asia, there were samurai who weren't pacifists. In India, there was a terrible caste system. And in central Europe, Vlad the Impaler was doing his thing, the Cossacks were having their parties, and Genghis Khan was destroying cities and killing all their inhabitants, the dogs and the cats too, until nothing was left alive except insects.

[Apparition of Jack]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

We? You don't get to have any say in this my friend, you're some rando on a rando forum going on moralistic charades incapable of understanding anything about the world.

Ignorance is the reason for why this is happening, you are part of it.

You’re right. I apologise. I am simply far too naive for this cruel and hard world full of cynical self-interested actors: That’s why I can’t explain why the US and USSR destroyed the world in 1962. That’s why I can’t explain why Iran rejected Obama’s nuclear deal in 2015. That’s why I can’t explain why America failed to pass civil rights legislation in the 60s, or elected a black man in 2008.

Oh wait. None of those things happened. Turns out human generosity and goodwill actually has power. 
 

EDIT: Remember when there were mass killings of Muslims citizens after 9/11? Or all those Chinese internment camps during COVID? Remember when the EU broke apart in 2012 during the financial crisis? Remember when North Korea launched a nuke at Hawaii in 2017 after restriction talks broke down?

Oh wait. Again, none of those things happened. The worst part is all of this is just insights I’ve developed from Leo’s ideas about social evolution and the collective development of humanity, but no, apparently we’re all just cynical Cold War-era warhawks right?

Edited Sunday at 04:16 PM by Apparition of Jack